The Musitano crime family has been a leading force in the Hamilton underworld for decades but there are signs that the times they are a changin.
Violent attacks against the Hamilton Mafia family continued with what appears to be a drive-by shooting targeting the home of mob boss Pasquale “Pat” Musitano. According to authorities, multiple gunshots were heard and the home was hit with several bullets although no one was injured. This attack comes only a month after Pat’s younger brother Angelo Musitano who was also believed to be a leading figure within the crime family was shot and killed in the driveway of his home. Pat is believed to have taken the reigns of the organized crime family in 1995 after the death of his father and former boss Dominic Musitano.
“Angelo Musitano and Pat Musitano”
Both Pat and Angleo were charged with ordering the murders of former Ontario mafia boss John “Johnny Pops” Papalia and his right-hand man Niagara Falls mobster Carmen Barillaro. They agreed to a plea deal which allowed them to plead guilty conspiring to kill Barillaro while the charges in Papalia’s death were dropped. In 2000 the Musitano brothers were sentenced to 10 years in prison under the terms of the agreement but were released in 2007. They seemingly aligned themselves with the once powerful Rizzuto crime family of the Montreal mafia in an effort to seize control of the Ontario underworld now that Papalia was out of the way.The brothers remained low key after their release from prison until Pat’s SUV was set on fire in his driveway in a suspected arson attack in 2015.
These attacks against the Musitano family seem to be targeted and well organized although the motivation behind them remains a mystery. The Musitano brothers violent past may be coming back to haunt them and these attacks could very well be revenge from one of the many enemies they acquired over the years. Another theory of mafia experts from the area is that the crime family may be under attack from a new and more powerful Ndrangheta cell looking to put an end to the Musitano era. The Musitano family has weakened over the last few years and mob experts don’t believe they have the resources needed to strike back.
The protection they once enjoyed from being aligned with the Rizzuto family no longer exists after the death of longtime Montreal godfather Vito Rizzuto and the dismantling of the families hierarchy in the ongoing Montreal mafia war. The Rizzuto clan is but a shadow of its former self leading to a power vacuum which has yet to be filled leaving themselves and their allies vulnerable. It seems clear that someone wants the Musitano family out of the way and many believe the families decades-long run atop the Hamilton mafia may be coming to an end. Much like his brother Pat’s days as a mafia leader seem to be numbered although he and the rest of the Musitano family have refused to cooperate with authorities.
It just continues to get crazier out there since the top was blown off of things by the Rizzuto war and death of Vito. By the time all this dust settles we may have an entirely new landscape of organized crime across Canada or at least to some extent if not completely.
A mob cafe was blown up in Woodbridge today, could be related to the incident a few days ago, who knows.
https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2017/06/29/man-arrested-after-explosion-rocks-woodbridge-caf.html
It seems like it could very well be. Just one incident after another its a bit hard to keep track at times of who may be hitting who and which side is actually winning.
The Canadian Mob scene is definitely a trip. Funny how we have become accustomed to these stories about Restaurants and homes being firebombed. Brazen daytime hits in the driveways of Mobsters homes. Street gangs forcing their way into the living rooms. Outlaw Bikers just being themselves haha. Various different clans, families etc… all just running amok up there. Old man Rizzuto killed by a sniper in his own home. Think about it, if one of our Crime Family’s even looks like they might have a civil war the Feds go to Defcom 4 immediately and they start handing out RICO cases. The Canada scene is right out of an over the top action movie! You couldnt even write something like that and have it at all believable and yet it’s happening pretty regularly up there. You gotta love the action up there at least.
Our justice system is incredibly lax. The funny part is half the time the cops are fully aware of what’s happening and who is doing what they just lack the resources or legal ability to do anything.
We don’t have anti mafia laws etc nor does the US but where we differ is that we barely deport people, even high profile mobsters.
Cosa Nostra and ‘ndranghrta royalty have used Canada as a safe zone for a century.
That just means that your country isn’t the massive police state that America is which is a good thing.
It’s as though you step back 80 years when you cross that border. I think these guys to the north are still the real deal from yester-year!
Your 100% right it is something right out of the movies and even then many would find it a stretch! And it doesn’t seem like things are going to settle down any time soon.
Very likely related. Article is accurate, there is a new ‘ndrangheta cell operating in Hamilton and this is over Coke and gambling turf.
Pat has a massive target on his back and it is unlikely he backs down and leaves Hamilton, even if that’s enough to save his life.
Interesting Tommy. I don’t think I have ever heard that name before but now we know a new Ndrangheta threat is def moving in then it seems like Pat is going to be out maned and out gunned so he is def in a load of trouble. Seems like if he stays and fights he is likely a goner.
Almost positive pat gets clipped.
I think the Woodbridge cafe bombing was a reply to the shooting of his house, but the musitanos are not a heavy in numbers but have strong ties overseas.
There’s little left of the luppinos and the papalia group so i think it’s a new cell.. and nesci keeps popping up. The streets in Quebec and Ontario are so hectic it’s hard to be sure
Mob rule is really a Toronto and Montreal thing, the Italians are not the top of the heap in British Columbia or really any other province with a major crime scene. They obviously have interests probably in every province but it’s primarily Ontario and Quebec where they’re the top dogs.
I think pretty much whenever southern Italians emigrated en masse, Italians dominated the crime scene. There are Italians out in B.C but not that many. That’s why the Asian/Indian/ white boys have control of the streets out there, but they are barely more organized than your average street gang. They don’t have the money in legal enterprises like construction, or influence in politics like the Italians had/have. They are all small fry, and most of them (in Toronto/Ontario or Montreal) are working under the mafia whether they know it or not. For instance, alot of the drugs they get are sold to the older leaders of a gang from some middle man who in turn probably got it from a biker who originally sourced it from Italians who imported it. Italians are the top of the chain in most scenarios in which they are present.
Not only that, let’s face it, other groups don’t have the style and the fancy last names that Italians have lol. Why do you think names like Lamborghini, Ferrari, Maserati, Prada, Gucci, and Versace are so popular, especially in hip-hop music? Imagine how notoriously popular a criminal group called the Williams Crime Family would be? Bleh, sounds f*****g bland lol! Even groups that have far surpassed La Cosa Nostra in wealth, brutality, reach and power like the Mexican drug cartels still don’t garner the same popularity and fascination as the Italians. And it isn’t just because of Hollywood either, as there are plenty of films featuring drug cartels as well.
I agree with what you just said clinton, but I’d like to add that I think the power of the cartels is often exaggerated. Yes they got lots of money, and they are definitely brutal sick shitheads (they cut people’s heads off with chainsaws and much worse.) But the thing is, that’s in Mexico, which their law enforcement cannot be compared to America’s, Canada’s, or even Italy’s. They are free to do what they want there, but you don’t see them pull that shit here or in the States. (Leaving bodies cut up on the streets) they would crack down on them like crazy. Their reach is limited to Mexico, central and southern America, which arent the most wealthy countries and don’t have 1st world law enforcement, and maybe have some people selling stuff to organized criminals in Europe. The ‘ndrangheta and mafia is in all sorts of 1st world countries around the world, like Canada, US, Germany, Australia, and many other countries where it is much harder to do illegal stuff and even in South American countries like Venezuela and Brazil. Also, many sources calculate roughly that italian organized crime in general makes well over a 100 billion while all the cartels combined make less than that, so I would say that while the cartels are possiblly more brutal, they aren’t as powerful.
I wouldn’t say the cartels pull down smaller figures than the mafia…
Alot of stats I see says otherwise. How accurate they are is debatable, but think about it this way. Almost all of the money the cartels make is from drugs, particularly cocaine. The advantage they have a is that they control have influence where the cocaine is manufactured. The various Italian organizations such as ndrangheta basically have a cocaine and hash drugs(Cosa Nostra) monopoly on western Europe. So thats a shit ton of drug money right there once they sell the cocaine to gangs and other people who cut/distribute it themselves. Maybe not quite as much as the drug money that the cartels make but still alot. Then, you have to consider all the other businesses they are in. Cigarettes, guns, extortion, abit of kidnapping, gambling, waste management, the construction contracts it gets from corruption, and much more. That’s billions and billions without the drugs. Dig around about the annual revenues of all the Mexican cartels, and the revenues of the 4 major Italian mob groups and you can see what I mean. Even if the stats aren’t exactly accurate, they are probably close. Another point to add is that the cartels are murdering each other like crazy, while the various Italian group don’t kill each other as much (such as Cosa Nostra vs camorra) and should be considered much more United.
One thing I noticed is how some of the Cartels have implemented a Religious aspect into their gang. Whoever started that is definitely a clever fellow. One of the topics we have discussed here in the past is the whole idea of actually being “Made”! Using all the various rituals and ceremonies gives it that mystique! Youngsters aspire their whole lives to be formally inducted. Plays up the concept of an elite Brotherhood. To the old school guys it definitely meant something. Anyway my point is the Cartels have introduced various rites and spiritual elements to their groups. We all know it’s basically just bullshit but to a young poor desperate Mexican kid the thought of belonging to an exclusive group and having protection from some Saint is very alluring. The more they buy into it the less likely they are to snitch and so on. I figure some of the older and wiser Cartel guys saw the value in that as a management tool and way to set them apart from what is otherwise just a drug gang. Im not sure which Mexican groups started that stuff but its a page right out of the Mafia handbook. The more Americanized the Families got and some of that tradition started to fall away. They seemed to have gotten less disciplined and basically spoiled. Its no coincidence these families started falling apart the further away they got from their Traditions. Now some of them are going back to their old school Siciliano ways. I think some Cartels are kinda doing their own version of that along with just complete savagery mixed in. Its a good recruiting strategy for them at least haha
Yes very true, and I personally think that the old school Italian guys who invented the initiation and all the ceremonies actually believed in them. They are very Catholic in their own twisted way. Some more than others.
You’re exactly right rituals and ceremonies definitely gives them a mystique and makes them more Mafia-like, so to speak. Those are surely key ingredients in a successful criminal organization, especially when it comes to longevity. It’s what separates them from the here today, gone tomorrow gangs.
And many of those drugs are supplied by the cartels. Look back about two weeks on here where an Italian fugitive was just busted in South America. The Camorra have also had many power struggles between Clans, I believe they called them seccionists.
Supplied by the cartels, yes, but only because the cartels are from the countries where the drugs are sourced. That’s the big advantage that the cartels have over everyone else in the drug game. It’s not like cocaine grows in Italy. And not to mention that they come from extremely corrupt South and Central American countries where they can massacre entire families in front of everyone and don’t even have to be organized about it. The situation in Italy with the 4 Italian Mafia groups is much more fascinating to me. They’re far more organized. I had a Mexican himself say that it’s more organized in Italy. Just look at how they assassinated judges Giovanni Falcone and Paolo Borsellino, among many others. Spectacular!
I get that you are fascinated with them. Regardless of the Cartels advantage of being where the product is grown, the reality is they are there. With that they run the pipelines and profit absurdly. They also are very organized they have ties to police, military, politicians, etc. They even have extended their reach to presidents of nations(Noriega). I know in no way are they as glamorous or hold the sam aura the Mafia has, but they are every bit as powerful, far more ruthless, and generate a hell of a lot more income. They say back in the 80’s Pablo Escobar spent $2,500+ a week on rubber bands just to store money. The money the cartels make exceeds many GDPs of small nations.
The same has been said of the combined income of Italy’s 4 Mafia groups, that they exceed the GDPs of some small nations. The assets seized from those guys on a daily basis is evident of that. If only everything over there made its way to English news lol. The Ndrangheta makes more than McDonald’s, and Italian police say that they have unlimited financial resources. Think about that word, unlimited!
Your last sentence gives a good point. If you want to get a glimpse into Italian OC activity, webpages from European news agencies are full of info, let alone if you can read Italian, news will give a (more) accurate picture of what goes on there (and the rest of Europe).
Just to mention a few very recent (!) headlines:
Ndrangetha inflitrated migrant centers in Calabria and stole millions (!) of EUR of state funds;
a Cosa Nostra cell in Germany was busted for massive drugtrafficking, intimidation, violence;
Massive recent busts all over southern Italy: 116 arrested in Calabria; 56 in Catania; 27 in Tarent; (by these numbers most us families would be defunct)
German agencies report a growing mob presence in the countrys construction industry by Ndrang. and CN
Should give you a heads up on whats going on under the radar
The west coast is entirely Angels turf. Obviously because of the consortium there is work done between the Italians and ha and the Irish as well as the caruana cuntrera group but the Angels have a rigid control over the west coast and manipulate or control most street gangs or the UN, red scorpions etc..
True. The hells have a slight advantage in recruitment because they have a large pool. Mangiacakes (Anglo saxon Canadians are all across the country), French Canadian, and even some Italians can be a part of the various motor cycle clubs such as ha, while the mafia is limited to where the Italians are. But I’d say that wherever the 2 are together, the mafia has a slight leg up in terms of power. Look at Montreal and the sheer connections they had to billionaire business men, and some politicians that they were involved with. That helps them launder money, and lots of other benefits. I could be wrong, but I don’t think as many hells Angels have those connections, and they usually rely on their mob buddies for them. Don’t get me wrong, I think the ha are a tough bunch, are well organized, and powerful, but tlnot like the Italians. Let’s face it, Toronto and Montreal are the most important cities in Canada anyway. Sure there’s money in BC, but not like Toronto and Montreal. Just my opinion.
The mafia was very very deeply entrenched in every facet of Quebec society, they’ve been there forever. A lot of those ties are a result of that.
Toronto has of course always had a mafia presence, be it paul volpe or the siderno group but even then the siderno’s really only started to make a name for themselves with mike racco in what? The 50s I believe. And even then it took them a while to become what they are today.
Just curious if I have the history correct. The Musitanos are actually Calabrians as well but had sided with the Rizzutos in the past or maybe still are with whats left of the Rizzuto camp? Would that be the reason other Ndrine clans are coming at these guys or simply trying to take over everything weather they be Calabrians or siciliano just because they can?
They are calabrese yes and they were in bed with the rizzutos, Vito was trying to push into Ontario at that point and papalia didn’t fit in with Vito’s business model ie using/working with bikers (papalia forbade entry to the Angels in Hamilton).
At that time it seemed like the logical move for the musitanos (smallest clan in Hamilton) to get in bed with the rizzutos because they were juggernauts.
I think it is a combination of vendetta and simply just wanting to take over their gambling and drug turf. They’re old news now and there isn’t much reason to allow them to continue to control any rackets.
I seriously doubt Vito cared much about protecting the musitanos, they were convenient pawns for him at the time to assist in his move into southern Ontario by clipping the old guard and not using his own flag to do so. Vito was a very smart and cunning man but treacherous in his own right. When panepinto was his left hand in Ontario and he clipped two ‘ndragheta members for having gaming machines on his turf, high ranking ‘ndrangheta members flew to Montreal from Calabria to meet with Vito who immediately deferred and allowed panepinto to be clipped. Sam calautti did the hit, who also likely killed rizzuto sr.
It was a mistake in my view to allow panepinto to be clipped. It showed weakness and it was a turning point. Also, the violis are still in Hamilton and have abundant reason to despise anyone who got in bed with the rizzutos, and have been seen in Montreal at some pretty curious times.
There are so many factions in Canada it’s a cluster fuck. You have the rizzutos in Montreal, the ndrangheta siderno guys, you have the violi remnants, you have other Rizzuto separatists, you got the d’amicos, you got sicilians in Toronto, you have the the various Hamilton clans, supposedly there is a few cammora guys here and there. And 10-15 years ago it was even worse because you had Buffalo guys exerting control on Toronto, although now they have retreated back to upstate new York for the most part, some people think they are extinct, but I think they probably still have some small time, low key things going on, even if the family is pretty small. I mean I find it hard to believe that a faction that was quite powerful 20 years ago is completely extinct, it’s possible, but I think they still got something there.
Even have a ‘ndrangheta cell in goddamn Thunder Bay!
Not sure if they’re in the illegal fur trade rackets or peddling bootleg booze to the natives but It’s almost comical that a mafia type organization finds that town a worthwhile venture.
I’m sure there are mining and construction interests that make it appealing but shit, Thunder Bay. Then again I guess their roots are small impoverished southern Italian villages so t-bay may not be so bad.
Yup, they have guys up in thunder Bay, and even some stuff in Sudbury and Sault Ste Marie, there is a decent amount of Italians there compared to the population of the towns’. Strange to think there would be Italians up in those places, but theyre are up there, along with many italian restaurants, social clubs and grocery stores up there. They are closely related to the ‘ndrine over in Toronto. They probably have interactions with the natives there due to their reserves and the fact that they often straddle the US Canada border, and legal construction too. Thunderbay is always getting bigger.
The Thunder Bay part surprises me. I’m not surprised at all though that they are up in the Soo. With the Soo locks up there, it gives distribution access to every major port and city near the Great Lakes.
It’s questionable if the Thunder Bay cell is really an active cell or just coincidence that guys with certain last names happen to live there.
As far as their presence in the soo I’m not too sure about that.
Exactly what intheknowd said, easy transportation, and also, it’s a border town without a shit ton of security, perfect for smuggling whatever. There isn’t a shit ton of mobsters, but there are alot of Italians up there, and the mib definitely have a presence, with a few guys running stuff. They are like a satellite crew for Toronto.
HA has a presence in sudbury and I think the rizzutos had some interests in mining up there.. beyond that I don’t know of any other activity.
HA dope ring was just shut down in Sudbury and a after hours joint. Smaller towns are always good prey for the angels.
Also, id say the Buffalo family is virtually extinct. Maybe a couple guys left around still dabbling in a bit of minor things but I don’t think there is anything close to a crime family left.
The only way I could see the Buffalo family and other “extinct” families making a comeback is if Mafiosi from the old country moved to those cities and started it all over again, from scratch. I know it sounds farfetched to a lot of people but I could actually see something like that happening. They did it once why not again.
Ya that’s not going to happen. Attrition will see to it.
They’re outmanned and outgunned by nearly every single other ethnicity involved in criminal activity in the majority of the states.
The American mafia will never be what it once was. Italians have no reason to immigrate to North America to participate in a collapsed organization.
The FBI states that there are several members of Cosa Nostra, Ndrangheta, and the Camorra in the United States, but they don’t give any details on exactly who, where, and what they’re doing. I’m not talking about participating in a collapsed organization necessarily, I’m talking about starting brand new crime families in cities that once had La Cosa Nostra.
Oh of course they have people there. What crime organization doesn’t? I’d be hard pressed to think of a major criminal organization (or any organization) that doesn’t have some presence in the United States.
That doesn’t mean they are there to rebuild the American LCN. That will never happen. I’m sure the Americans have done more than enough to prove to their Italian brethren that having an offshoot under their flag in America is not worthwhile.
Are you saying that they are just over here kicking back relaxing and not doing anything illegal? Maybe they don’t want to rebuild La Cosa Nostra. Perhaps they want to start their own cells, or American-based branches of their clans back home.
Well ya that’s exactly what they’re doing.
Under the banner of Gambino, lucchese, bonnano, Colombo or Genovese? No chance.
Zips stopped giving a shit about the ‘American mafia’ in the galante days. They’re for sure involved in every imaginable racket under the sun in America, but under the control and purview of Italians, not Americans. Same as in Canada.
Right. I’m just curious I think that law enforcement knows about a lot of shit that they don’t reveal to the public. Federal authorities can even arrest someone without it making the news, so as not to “compromise their ongoing investigations,” or whatever bullshit they call it.
Like what?
Focus on Italian OC hasn’t been reduced to the extent it has been entirely because of terrorism, it’s just because they’re genuinely less of a threat.
Five families will be street gangs in track suits in a couple decades
I believe that if the culture changes, and for example a very long, very good mafia movie like the godfather or Goodfellas would come out, it could lead to a resurgence for the mafia. This sounds far fetched but it’s true. There are nearly 18 million Italian Americans, so there’s tons, the issue is that the criminal type ones are more interested in black hiphop culture and mulinyan shit. That’s why you see so many white kids with their f*****g pants down a listening to garbage. Sammy Gravano said himself he was inspired to join the mafia because he saw the Godfather, and it made him feel proud to be Italian; the mafia was romanticized as cool, tough, smart, a privilege to behold. If the culture of black rapper ass kissing finally changes, and shifts towards a more old school culture, you would see alot more young blood trying to join the mob. Now theses guys might not all be the brains of the family, but would provide dying mob families with the muscle and associates they need, and could be distances from upper rank family members incase they flip. The ones that show promise and brains could get made and bolster the ranks. Even if the guys aren’t full Italian, as long as they have an Italian surname and look/act Italian, that should be the ethnical prerequisite. I know people that are a quarter Italian that look and act more Italian than some full blooded Italians. The culture has to change some day..
That negates the entire end game of what mafia is. To rise to a level of prominence and bring your people to the same level so you’re no longer a peasant and no longer a slave to the state, which they’ve achieved, in North America.
The second and third and fourth generation Italians are not membership material, and if you have a head on your shoulders (ie the chin), you don’t want your kin to follow that path.
Look at gotti junior. Guys a goof, milking a name. It isn’t and won’t ever be the same.
Sammy Gravano came from a good family, they were Sicilian but they had some money and didn’t really want him to get into crime.
Right, and was it ideal for LCN to make him?
Not in the end, but he wasn’t a rat just because of that. He was still a hardcore mobster. He knew how to make money and was a stone cold murderer.
Ya but who cares? Making money and being a killer aren’t all that matters.
He’s a rat, that’s what matters. Just like the majority of people from his generation onwards. When the going gets tough the tough get going, he certainly didn’t.
Thats certainly true, but other than that he was still good quality material. Look at John Gotti, he was third generation, but he wasnt a rat.The only problem with him was his flashyness. If Sammy the bull had John Gotti’s loyalty, he would have been incredibly respected even until this day.
Ya and toto riina was a disaster for cosa nostra. So was gotti. Toto riina walked a fine line between cosa nostra boss and flat out terrorist. Like an Italian mom Boucher. Challenging the state, when you’re meant to be in the shadows, defies the very principle.
As much as gaspipe is a scumbag he had it right in saying that John gotti was the beginning of the end of cosa nostra. So much for secret society. John gotti was a gangster, absolutely, but he should’ve never been a boss or even a capo in my opinion.
Yep and Casso was another scumbag rat too. It’s hard to find nearly perfect mobsters like Vito Rizzuto, although Frank Cali and Barney Bellomo aren’t bad.
people dont join the mob because of Black culture and music on the radio.LMAO. its that theirs not the same opportunity to make BIG money . listen to all these speak gravano, casso, they all agree the days of making millions is done for the most part. younger generation italians seem better oppurtunity in being doctors or engineers. and all seing these old school guys getting hundred years doesnt help
The ones that are gang banging wont be doctors or lawyers anyways, they will likely go to jail or go on to some menial jobs. Get your head out of your ass. Even in the old days, if you didnt have the balls and brains to do it, you werent going to go far in the mob life.
Definitely not the money there compared to the past. Half of there rackets have been legalized in some form and now govmt profits off tax dollars. Be it the garbage industry, lottery, casinos, etc.
Possibly less money in some instances, but more in others such as online gambling which is still relatively new. And regardless there is still tons of money there, even if it is legitimized, they can use their illegal influence to secure contracts for their own legit companies.
Italian OC is still very powerful, in fact even more so today. It’s the American Mafia that’s a joke. And they’re pretty much already street gangs in track suits. Although we have indictments coming down that suggest that they’re still somewhat of a force. Street gangs don’t make millions from hospital construction rackets. To be honest, after all they’ve been through, they shouldn’t still be able to pull off stuff like that. Yet there they are doing it. They said that the end of the Mafia was here when John Gotti was convicted and that was a couple of decades ago, yet here they are still generating millions and the feds can’t even get their shit together in the East Coast LCN case. Maybe law enforcement is the joke these days.
Going by your standard American OC(any American involved in OC)is much more powerful than Italian OC. Corruption, extortion, and bid rigging goes on all across the world. Yes, when it happens in Italy it’s usually by Italians. Won’t elaborate on why that likely is, I think you can figure it out.
But you grasp at straws and hurl bullshit half truths. Like saying Ndrangheta brings in more than McDonald’s, can you back that statement? To be honest you kind of make me feel a bit uneasy I get the sense you just have a thing for us Italian men.
I can vouch for him that the mcdonalds thing is a common stat that can be seen when reading about ndrangheta.
I did a little research on it. I see where it has been reported as one institute came up with the figures. With what others call “the mythical numbers theory” basically over hyping #’s and not using or providing any scientific evidence.
Well I agree they obviously make huge sums of money. The claim that they out earned McDonalds to me is ridiculous unless backed by some actual fact based formula and numbers.
Well then the same can be said with all criminal organizations. Who really knows how much they really make?
Exactly nobody knows. I was only making a point on the one because it seems very far fetched. Nowadays anyone does a study and it really has no merit people will still run with it as they want a catchy article.
True.
You stupid fuck I’m going by what several different sources have said about the Ndrangheta and McDonald’s, and I’m sure you f*****g know that but continue to play dumb and act like I’m the one who came up with it just because it supports whatever bullshit animosity you have against me. f*****g piece of shit. Of course corruption, bid rigging and extortion go on all over the world, but this is called aboutthemafia.com not extortionbidriggingcorruption.com. And I don’t believe I was even talking to you, Internet tough guy hiding behind a fake name.
“Bullshit animosity”? Half of what you say is contradicting. You go from constantly boasting how others claims of American Mafia being finished makes you laugh. Now you are calling them a joke. You spit ball statements such as Canadian Mafia kills less innocents. When asked to back that statement you conveniently ignored.
I like reading others opinions on here and also like learning things when people present facts. What I have an issue with is people trying to pass opinion as fact.
That’s because it’s a little bit of both. Some recent cases can lead one to believe that the American Mafia is a joke while others can make someone think, “Damn, this stuff still goes on?” And when people pointed out specific instances where the Mafia in Canada have goofed off and misfired killing innocents I even replied that I wasn’t aware of those incidents.
Keep in mind the politics behind it all. The mafia has always and probably always will carry that allure that generates headlines. Headlines mean public interest and support which means agencies budgets remain plentiful.
The media exaggerates the mafia in the US. In Canada the media downplays it. We’ve had major ‘ndrangheta busts where the word mafia or ‘ndrangheta doesn’t even get mention, in the US one rookie soldier takes a pinch on a bag of dope and MAFIA BUST is a headline.
A mob cafe gets blown up, the whole side wall is completely destroyed, and all they do is mention it for one day on the news, and mention “organized crime”.
Canadians also simply don’t care as much.
‘Mafia’ is a household name, and the average Canadian probably believes it’s some thing of the past. ‘Ndrangheta… id bet a very, very small percentage of Canadians know that word.
You’d think in a country with such deep mob roots that commisso or verduci would be a household name the same way gotti or castellano is in the US, but no one knows or cares.
Like I said before, the young people only care about their favorite celebrities or “musicians”. If that stonzo Di merda Drake were to slap someone in the face on camera it would be all over the news but the ndrangheta kill someone and it barely makes a headline. It’s ok, that exactly what the ‘ndrangheta want, for no body to care, I bet the media might be a little intimidated to over report, if anything. The ndrangheta isn’t like the present day lcn, the ndrangheta WILL KILL YOU if you bother them to much, or atleast send a message.
I agree with Clinton to an extent, the economy in southern Italy right now is shit, so alot of Italians are coming to north america. Not as many as the mass migrations of the late 1800’s and early 1900’s, but a healthy trickle. I can see new Italian mobsters merging in most places with the old Italian American guard, to form newer organizations, with the zips working mostly aminsgt themselves, but in conjunction with the Americans. I also see the next wave of leaders being maybe 1st or second generation Americans with more recent family ties to Italy, that know the best of the old and new world.
*As a side note, the other criminal organizations you are talking about are a joke for the most part. Russian and Asian organized crime in the us are greatly exaggerated in movies, and are mostly limited to extortion in their own communities, some fraud, and maybe alittle dabbling as drugs. They have aeiund the same amount of power as one of the weaker Cosa Nostra families now says. There is no Russian or Asian crime cell in the States that can match up to the five families, Detroit, philly, Chicago, Boston or even new Jersey, even in their weaker states. Then you for some loosly organized bikers who have some decent power, but are just glorified Street gangs on bikes, you got the thousands of black and Latino gangsters murdering each other all the time for nothing, but in terms of dangerous organized crime, there isn’t much else to speak of. The csrtels might have some presence in border towns, but they don’t have the man power or balls to pull of a war in a major US city further north. Finally, you have the Irish which are basically reduced to relatively small, glorified Street gangs in the north east.
CARTELS have influence in every American city they have cells operating drug and distribution networks as well has working with Mexican gangs. In Chicago the cartel are responsible for 90% of drug distribution.
to say any of the 5 families can come close to matching the influence in strength of the cartels in the US is crazy
Well I beg to differ then. The cartels have influence in the south western states, but not much in the north east, where even more money is, as well as higher amounts of law enforcement. Cartels are new here, they have not infiltrated American society like la Cosa Nostra, they are still outsiders.
they have influence in every state and city. because there importanted 90% of the coke thats snorted in the us. they have cells in every city PERIOD. and they havent infiltrated american society like Cosa Nostra of 30 years ago agreed no organisation will ever be able to accomplish that in the modern age.
Sure they have small cells in most major cities to ensure that the cocaine trade goes smoothly, but that’s all they do, that’s not real power, they are glorified drug dealers. They aren’t involved in extortion, unions, labor rackets, gambling, serious murder, loansharking and the various other activities (in the United States) that the lcn still does, especially in on the east coast and Chicago and Detroit. Everyone knows of the five families, and you know mostly why aside from being here a long time and movies? Because they actually do shit, the public has run into them, and the FBI persecuted them because they are dangerous. I know the names of the various drug cartels, but I bet you’d be hard pressed to find a new Yorker who does.
cause there based in mexico and there isnt movies and documentaries like there american conterparts. and who gives a shit what does regular people knowing names half to do with anything.. you would be hard pressed to find anybody outside of new year that knows the names of modern mobsters. or even younger people that thinks the mob is not extinct. and im sorry by REAL POWER that guys control the drug trade and an a country. thats power. and there involded in much more then drugs extortion, sex trafficking, gun running. every mexican gang banger or even the power EME mexican mafia that controls american prison is there foot soldiers.
Exactly, the money goes to Mexico, all they have in the us is some lousy street gangs and a few pawns.
sorry bro i just not sure what your point is im saying . the major CARTELS are more power then any of the american mob families period. even in the US i believe there more powerful . maybe one day the mob can ressurge and surpass them if the radio stops playing black hip hop music that is… LOL
Maybe I’m a mob fanboy, but this sight is about the mafia, the MAFIA, Italians. So maybe if you want to suck spic, titsoons, minority ass, then then this is the wrong site for you to be going on kid.
you a member of the KKK site to?
Nope, I’m just saying it as it is. The same goes to a bunch of other guys on this site. Always glorifying bikers, Asians, russians, micks, spics or whatever the fuck. You can acknowledge and have some level of respect for those groups on here, but this is a website for the mafia, so it’s pretty stupid to be glorifying everyone else on here and putting down the Italians.
your not to smart bro. you sound like a pesant. the site says MAFIA not Itlian mafia. if you look at the tabs on the side there one for yakuza, russian. theres all sorts of MAFIA not just itlian oc. we dont all have to agree that the Cosa Nostra of today is the most powerful group to be a member of this site. And you dont need to start throwing insults because you cant back up your points. You comment about RAP music being to blame for the lack of recruits in the mob is the stupidest shit ive ever heard.
Mafia is a Sicilian name, and get real, 99.9 % of stuff on this site is Italian, this is an Italian mafia site. Last I checked the Yakuza and Russian sections had maybe a handful of articles combined compares to the hundreds of Italian ones. And I’m not a fool to believe the Italians are the most powerful organized crime group globally. I’m not saying they boss everyone around throughout the world, but I’d say they are the most powerful with all factors considered. Just because you and a few other dummies think otherwise, doesn’t mean that it’s not, popular opinion is not always correct.
i agree with you bro and as soon as soon as they stop playing black music on the radio the next generation of the mob are gonna take over the WORLD!
You can keep trying to troll me buddy, but it’s not going to work. Your petty intellect fails to see the validity in my statement. Back in the late 80’s and early 90’s, it was “cool” in many circles to be Italian. That’s why there was so many wannabees from movies like good fellas and even extending into the future with the Sopranos. But now that the culture for youth is more based of off hip hop and rappers, the young italian american kids would rather be Smoking weed and listening to that shit with their pants down. , Instead of embracing their culture. Say what you want, but the mafia plays an important role in Italian American culture, even though most aren’t involved. So if the culture were to change back similar to the 80’s it could bring some recruitment from Italians and non Italians alike. They would be doing all sorts of shit to prove them selves as associates, and the kids who eventually matured enough and were smart could become members, it’s logical. But you wouldn’t understand that, so go back to jerking off to meek Mill or lil uzi or whatever nigger you praise. I apologize to any respectable African Americans.
buddy i leave in little Italy in Montreal, every Italian i no loves the culture its cool to be italian. what your saying is opinion not based in any type of fact. the reason for the decline in the american mob is increased pressure on law enforcement and competion from other groups. you can go back to jerking to Adolf Hitler and Mussaliny
You are a disgrace to the neighborhood then you cafone. Vaffamoc’ a chi te murt’. It doesn’t count those new age faggot Italians with skinny jeans and fades, they are huge nigger lovers, not real Italians.
LOL ok bro you must be real old im guessing 50s or 60 probably dont have a job . hanging out on your pourch all day playing cards talking about the good old days. using nigger every two seconds but apoligizing to ny respectable African Americans. your a clown
New Italians are a f*****g pathetic joke, that why look at Italy, and the state of the mob. All a bunch of spoiled twirps. The old generation atleast had more people that can respect values, but it’s decreasing every generation, and leaving nothing but retarded culturless punks such as yourself giovanotte. I hope you enjoy living in a minority hell hole in the future.
im not american were good here in Canada.
He’s from Toronto I’m pretty sure.
oh yea lol then he shouyld no about Montreal already .
No your not good, Canada is f*****g shit in many senses. The new age Italians kids are only “Italian” when the world or euro cup rolls around, they go “Forza”. But as soon as it’s over they go back to listening to generic mulinyan music in their shittily modded cars that their parents bought for them. If you ask a young Italian what part of Italy they are from, either they won’t know, or they will say “uhhh Calabria”. And the sad part is, their Nonna and nonno from Italy or other relatives are often nearby, but the kids just don’t give a fuck, they are sheep and just like what the masses like, just like you cedz.
ok old man enjoy your remaining years.
Atleast I’m proud, you can’t argue back because you know what I said is true, burn in hell you cuck. Cornutu. Trimone, che cazz’ sta fasc’? Wake up and smell the coffee, you are a piece of shit pal, if you even are a fraction of a percent “Italian blood” you are a waste of skin and not true Italian. Do yourself a favor and go watch Narcos or some garbage, you will feel much more at home.
i guess i hit the nail on the head you just just scared old man thats past his glory years. this is alll your opinion old man. every older generation talks shit about the younger generation. like i said you just a scared old man
Wrong again pal, I’m not old, I am young, I’m in my 20’s, I’m third generation, but you know what, I love the old traditions, I love the old generation, they are the Italians I look up to, the ones who got stuff, done, the respectable Italians. I don’t give a shit about money, or anything much really, except the fact that I can be proud in myself that I embrace the culture of my family. Go to a middle age ndrangheta guy, and he will f*****g laugh in your face and send you back to play with the kiddies. These are middle age guys, who look Italian can be, dress respectably, and they have mullets (or thinning ones atleast) or are bald because they lost their hair. Or they are older and just have slicked back hair, not bloody fades. The new generation is a joke and I will do my part to change whatever I can. When an old Italian, a real Italian, sees me, we can have a good conversation, they have respect for me, they almost see me as an equal, because I am one of them. Have you ever heard of real Italian music like Gianni Bella, Toto cotugno, I pooh, Nino D’Angelo, Riccardo fogli? Naa, because you probably listen to drake and Chief Keef right? You know what that makes you paesan? Garbage.
im happy for you bro. lets keep everything old school. we should stop driving cars to be more like the old country as well
I never said stop driving cars, just not shitty blue Mazda 5’s blaring rap. Are you still In highschool, because you cannot understand English. I’m probably arguing with a 15 year old that watched too much breaking bad. Lol if you tried to join the mob you would be a modern day equivalent to Sean gismonte and Matt Bevilacqua. No, actually worse. I admit I’m a bit of a mob fanboy, but that keeps me from being a cuck and a sheep. So go smoke weed with your friends at a plaza with your Volkswagen Jetta and stop wasting my time, strunz’.
15 x 2 plus couple years 🙂 ok fan boy you seem tired why dont you go take a nap or something
Keep trying to troll me loser, first you make fun of me for being old, now young, no real merit or weight behind your insults, it won’t work. Your grandparents must be so proud of you for being a cuck. I feel bad for them. To have such a disgraziat for a grandson, keep making them proud Tyrone.
its getting late
Yes and you must be off to find a bigger or spic dick to suck, uaglioné
make sure to take your medication before you go to sleep
No problem nigger lover.
any good KKK rallies coming up ?
Screw the kkk.
well you keep calling me nigger and nigger lover and spic. you sure you not a member?? all this because i think the sinola cartel is more powerful then the 5 families LOL. btw im not even Italian dummy. i grew up with these people and enjoy the topic and i do alot of research. you think everybody on this site has to be Italian or only praise the itlian mob. you some Kind of Italian Supremacist or something.
grumpy old man
i guess skinny jeans and fashion sense is anti Italian. ya i guess your right Italians have no sense in style (Gucci, versacy, pradda) lol
In all fairness, Montreals Italian community is a rare breed.
They are very, very culturally and family oriented.
It’s fair to say the majority of Italian Americans are very americanized, but in Montreal and certain parts of the GTA I agree with you. Being Italian is something to be proud of.
Whereas Bensonhurst or little Italy Manhattan or east Harlem or any other number of traditionally Italian enclaves have become entirely mixed ethnicity, or Asian, Montreal has really maintained Italian strongholds.
money goes to mexico because guess what the boss leave in mexico because guess they are mexican after all
La eme is a heavyweight throughout the entire American correctional system but they still rely on the brotherhood.
all Suretenos street gang in California answer to them.
Man I thought you Canadians were supposed to all be nice to a fault? I think it’s a pointless argument for you. Some of the people on here so infatuated with the Mob they’ll never except that they are not the most powerful. I’m not sure if they even want to be the most powerful. Being on top of the hill makes you a target both from the Feds and other criminal groups. Seems the Mob these days has gotten wiser and tried to fly under the radar a bit and regroup. With the exception of Canada. Present state up there is a little contested to say the least.
ya im just wasting my time good point.like its a personal attack to say the Cosa Nostra is not the most powerful. guy probably thinks can take on the us military.
Ok, your clearly a retarded minority lover, or a stupid minority. Go fuck off, your pointess to this site kid. Just cause you got gang raped by a bunch of spics doesnt mean your part of their cartel. Gone are the days of God fearing respectable white people, and old school Italians, all thats left is trash like you. The cartel are greasy little punks who squabble around in Mexico. No self respecting wiseguy gives a fuck about those guys, they kiss up to lcn and f*****g copy them. La nuestra familia, mexican mafia, the sinaloa cartels godfatheresque logo. Its all a f*****g half ass copy of la cosa nostra. So get your heads out of your asses. If you want to keep on believing your stupid opinions, which are completely unfounded, It makes common sense to do it on a more cartel oriented site. Your too stupid to comprehend that if you talk smack about the mob, on a mob site, your gonna get flak. people like me will carry on the old italian values, it will never die. So do yourselves a favor a take a hike, because there will be alot more stupid arguments such as this one.
lol i think we hurt his feelings. you need a tissue
Ya, to wipe your spit off my ass, fanook, riccione.
good fearing white people. lol KKK lover
I dont need to be kkk to enjoy God fearing white culture and Italian culture.
God Fearing white culture i dont even no what that is lol. you giavazonne
f*****g Italian wannabee. I mean good, respectable people, not the current airhead, weedsmoking, liberal, retarded delinquents and atheists that plague society. I mean they were always around before, but not like now.
ok you malabrazonnne
El chapo is worth 1 billion. the Sinola cartel brought in 5 billion last year. do you think any of the 5 families bring in even billion. i dont think so, you giamaloone!!!
f*****g retard consider the ndrangheta, the cosa nsotra, the camorra, the sacra corona unita, the whole LCN. Then compare it to the koney all the cartels make. The cartels make peanuts. Search up the income of the mafia in italy.
the discussinon started with the Cartel vs the american mob particularly New York you f*****g Giavalionne!
The cartel as a whole is bigger as a whole than the american mob, the american mob has more power than the cartel in the states, where it counts because law enforcement is much tougher. But as a whole, cartels vs all Italian mafia, the mafia makes more money, has more spread, and I would say more powerful. They operate in a plethora of 1st world countries such as the states, canada, australia, italy, germany and many others. They have much more tough law enforcement than mexico.
– Drug Cartels Make $64 Billion a Year from U.S., thats just the US not counting every other continent they do business on you disgraceful Calzone di Givonnnete
Ok captain spic, spic anus licker, the us is their major money maker. How much do the cartels make internationally, ive seen estimates of 100 billion, alot right. Well goign off half ass stats, the ndrangheta itself makes up to 60 billion, and ive seen no lower estimates than 40 billion. The cosa nostra makes half maybe 20-30 billion. The cammora (they make alot internationally, i said they have alot of guys in spain, and they actually just made a bust in spain last night) makes 30-40 billion. The sacra corona unita pulls in about 10 billion. La stidda and various smaller groups in italy still pull in a few billion, and the american lcn still pull in 1-2 billion. Thats well over a 100 billion, pinche pendejo maricon, Do you understand that cocksucker, now im speaking your language.
Most estimates put italian organized crime making over a 150 billion.
most estimated put south american organized crime at 250 billion$$ your ancestors most be spinning in there graves you disrespectful Gio Di calbrone!!
Keep talking shit nigger lover, go say that to some connected guy in montreal and he will shoot you in your f*****g brainless head. Then see if your cartel will help you. You say you live in montreals little italy, yet you embrace no culture. You must be offended by the faggot ass italians or just be jealous then. Keep trying to troll me it aint working. Keep wasting time with your spic nigger ass on a mob site dumbass. I go on here for news because I am interested with the italian mob all over the world. You go on here to talk shit about italians, and assert the dominance of some f*****g mongoloids. Kid, you have no life.
naw i no its bothering you. your going crazy im in the same circles as some of these people you f*****g giovanette
Learn to speak english, its i know, not i no, you retarded illiterate immigrant.
ok professor LOL. on top of being a made guy your an English teacher too^
Anybody with a moderate intellect knows that Its i know, not i no, i dont have to be an english professor, but you dont understand do you, aww im sorry buddy.
chiffac a maliazzone, calabrese. you dont speak shit you calzone-di -pizzone. im getting ready for the Gianni Bella, Toto cotugno your just jealous cause you never saw them in concert
Ya keep talking bitch, your nothing but an internet tough guy, that gets punked out in real life. Whats wrong, did you get beat up by an italian kid in high school, is that why your mad little cedz, aww poor little guy, they should not pick on a guy thats defenseless, damn
off to the concert your Just Jealous ill take some pictures and send them to your email. affamoc a chittemurt, uagnione. i think your mad cause your a minority in Toronto that really pissed you off.
Well tell your people to stop coming here, we dont need any more minorties. And btw, there are almost half a million italians in the toronto area while there are around 250 thousand or a similar number to that in the montreal area, look up statistics. Too bad most are retarded, sheep, drones that listen to everything the media tells them, just like you amico.
half a million out of 6 million lol . why dont you just go back to Italy if you hate Canada so much lmao . you f*****g PAZZIONE de Calizionne!!
First off, 6 million isnt the population of the gta, its closer to 5. Second, that means one in 10, or going by your stats, one in 12 people in toronto are italian. Thats quite a bit, not many nationalities can come close to having that many people, except white anglos saxons, and maybe some some gooks. Not portuguese, not greeks, not even pakies.
move back to Italy you calzone anyway im done with you gotta get ready for the concert your just jealous ill take pics
Bye bye loser, you got all tuckered out. Ive never even been to italy, i dont need to, its not what it was in the 60a, 70s, 80s or early 90s. I have the old, and true, italian culture in my heart, and thats more valuable than anything that your shitty minority kissing ass will ever amount to, jerk off. Go to south america to join some drug cartel, those faggots will probably try to butt rape you and stab you. Bye, bye.
you never even been to ITALY lol ok thats why your behaving like this. your fake Italian. Gio di mamaio pi dazzione LOL
Sure, go type up new music in italy, and watch italian rap videos. Now tell me if those little shits are real italians. Hmm, actually maybe by your standards you would like it because your into gay, tasteless crap. EVerything that is incorperated into my version of italian, is the hard working, tough, cool, smart, and humble italians who came many years ago to make a better life. They know how to make good, real southern italian food, not the fufu bullshit little portions, with truffle and squid ink that they pass off for fine dining now. Modern italian culture has gone so downhill, they are resorting to copying americans in everything they do. So no thank you.
your some punk kind 3 generations deep never even been to Italy but your so much of a real Italian then people that were born and raised there you stupid mama fanuq gizionne
Sure you mongoloid, im a punk. I know how to speak barese dialect, have slicked back hair, and dress old school. Im like the old generation of italians in italy, and many who emmigrated, not the new generation of westernized, skinny jean wearing faggots, so get your head out of your ass and shut the fuck up. Your a virus to this website, nobody likes your sorry ass.
old school from like the godfather. you walk around like that i speak malabrese dialect dummy. nobody likes my ass did they all message you in private.
Your jealous that i have f*****g dignity not like a faggot bitch like yourself. Your always fighting with people on here because your a malignant cunt that has nothing better to do, and no knowledge or insight to provide or share. Go back to the hole you came from, and stay there.
im never fighting with anybody on here except you and a few times clinton thats it.
Yep, i never fought with anyone except you. You have had two people argue with you. Why are you always bothering clinton, if you think that what he says in innaccurate, or you dont agree with it, then have some respect, make a reasonable counter argument, and if you still dont agree, then just leave it alone. Or just simply ignore it. But no, you have to be an immature little bitch and start talking shit, and making fun of what people say to get under their nerves. You are a shit disturbing weasel, with no dignity, no respect for others,and no balls. I bet you wouldnt say any of this shit to clinton or I in real life because when push comes to shove you would get completely fucked up, so you have to talk tough on the internet. You are completely pathetic.
bro your the one thats pathetic is said the cartels are stronger then the american mafia. you started insulting me thats what happened you could have left it at a disagremment. your the one that went crazy and racial. i dont agree with with clinto says sometimes so i just reply. Clinto often says the american mafia is weak you could have this same argument with him lol. bro i used to a pro CFL player if i saw you i would break you in 3 pieces youung
Ya, maybe a player in the canadian faggot league loool. I see the way you bother clinton, your a f*****g internet bully, the kind that plagues every internet forum. And no, you tried to get under my nerves by mocking my statement about the hip hop rap music. If you didnt agree, then just be quiet, instead of trying to get on my nerves and spark an argument. Dont take it out on people on the internet that you were bulied in school for being a fat fuck,
i was actually a running back my whole life. i have comment on anything clinton say since MAY. lol i dont bother anybody i mostly comment on mtl mafia. being bullied in high school for being fat where do you come up with this you dont even know me. alot of people have got into with clinton not just me
I dont understand what you even said in your last sentence, but in an effort to avoid making these forums toxic, lets end this discussion, and in the future, avoid commenting to me and making fun of each other, just completely avoid me and ill do the same to you.
keep your racist comments for the KKK forum and we have a deal. ill even delete all the comments from this stupid f*****g argument
I dont come on here to be rascist, but to talk about stuff related to the site, so if you dont bother me, then you wont have to worry about me being rascist.
ill delete my comments were i insulted you . finished now
the american lcn definitely does not pull in 1-2 billion LOL did you pull that stat out of your ass
Its common knowledge retard, no one with decent knowledge of the mafia on this site would ever say that the current lcn pulls in less than 1 to 2 billion.
Common knowledge i never once heard that today the american mob makes 1-2 billion. your just making stuff up you clavionne di mamam
Go ahead and ask other people on this site what they think about those numbers, Jerome.
ME, I dont have to do anything if somebody sees they can comment you raccione di whoppione
In the meanwhile, why dont you go suck some muslim dick in downtown montreal
LOL Me, I dont no anything theirs none in lil Italy bro. gio de fazzione!
What the fuck are you saying at the end of every sentence, are you mentally ill, or mentally retarded
i guess you dont speak Italian bro, anyway i gotta go im getting ready Gianni Bella, Toto cotugno, I pooh, Nino D’Angelo, Riccardo fogli concerts at the Bell center. you jealous^ 🙂
Thats not italian, its just nonsense, you wouldnt have a clue, i thought you lived in little italy. St leonard, saint laurent, or riviere des praires, whatever you shouldnt even be in that neighborhood because you are an outsider, you cant even speak italian one bit. Maybe if you listened to those guys you would have some musical knowledge, instead of listening to useless punks bitches and niggers.
im going to the concert bro, you dont speak ITALIAN bro. you clarionnette di papi!
Vaffamoc a chittemurt, uagnione. I speak barese dialect you punk, all you speak is french, and shitty ass english. Off you go peasant, go to a taylor swift concert with your fat girlfriend.
stop making up italian words, you sound retarded.
They are actually just CN(Cosa Nostra). La Cosa Nostra is the American Mafia. My issue with lumping them together is it is the equivalent of lumping together all organized crime of any kind in America. You are talking about all organized crime in an entire nation. If doing it by that standard you have to compare it to revenue of all the cartels combined.
Thats what i was saying, but in a rush i forgot to add the s to the end of cartel. It is reasonable to compare any all Mexican organized crime, so all the cartels activities everywhere, to the activities of all Italian organized crime, just the ndrangheta itself makes at least the same or even more than all the cartels. Lets take cedz and his word that the sinaloa cartel make 5 billion. Then lets say that all the other cartels make even 60 billion, which is a high number. Lets even say 80 billion for frig sakes. The ndrangheta is rumored to make over 60 billion a year, and barely any source lists them making less than 40 billion a year. Then add in the cosa nostra, which is rumored to make about half the ndrangheta so about 20-30 billion, then the cammorra which is about 30 billion (they have alot of drug business in spain), then the smaller sacra corona unita which still pulls in around 10 billion, then la stidda, and various other groups pull in a few billion, and even american lcn still make maybe 1-2 billion a year. So thats over 100 billion.
Power is subjective friend.
i think there loose alies of the brotherhood against the black guerrilla family and nuestra family. i belive john gotti got assaulted in prison and he was paying the brotherhood protection in Marion Supermax
They are involved in all of those things and more in Mexico and Latin American countries. Also have been known to kill people in America especially in border towns.
I’m guessing many more New Yorkers can name different cartels with documentaries such as Cocaine Cowboys and Netflix shows on Pablo Escobar and El Chapo. They just weren’t romanticized like the Mob has been til recently.
In my opinion the Cartels far more dangerous and ruthless. As far as stability I’d give the Mob the upper hand. Cartels level of brutality usually doesn’t translate to stability.
Valid but the mafia lacks replenishments of their ranks whereas the cartels have a never ending stream of young South American men willing to join their ranks.
That’s the same pool that the mafia once drew from. Impoverished men of a certain ethnicity. And that too is why the mafia isn’t what it once was, because their recruitment pool is garbage. Bunch of spoiled fourth generation Italians with zero concept of the values and traditions that held the organization together and ensured its prominence.
Can’t argue with the recruitment pool. Where in Detroit area you don’t just have to be Italian you have to be related to someone as well. Many of the younger ones who would meet all these qualifications would be laughed at trying to collect on games.
I can tell you that there’s links from Detroit to Arizona for smuggling. I’ll say this since it is already well known as I know a few people who have been popped. I’m guessing the Arizona end and someone a few up here probably a few degrees of separation close to the cartels than I would be comfortable being.
Detroits structure is what has kept them afloat.. how many made rats do they have? I can only think of one.
For all of the D’s downfalls they know how to run a mafia.
That’s only because the Chicago outfit traditionally stays away from drugs, I bet you that the cartels ambassadors still pay the outfit some sort of tribute like they do in new York.
are you crazy the cartel dont pay the chicago mob anything. you actually the sinola cartel sends the chicago mob tribute thats laughable. El Chapo was public enemy number 1 first somebody had that status since al capone. the cartels heaviest presence are in the biggest cities. watch Drugs INC they were talking about chicago and fbi agent said the cartel would eat the mob of today alive
The opinion of one dunce FBI agent means nothing.
El Chapo is a goof, he is nothing in the US that’s why he has to hide out in Mexico and the prisons there because in the us they would throw his ass in jail and he would stay there like any other average jerk off.
what does that have to do with anything yes he has to hide in Mexico cause they want him in jail whats your point.
He’s nothing special in the United States is what I’m saying. If he was so powerful, why can’t he beat the system like John Gotti did? (apart from being stupid and learning from his mistakes)
John gotti beat the system last time i checked he died in prison. El Chapo escaped twice from jail. also hiding in mexico the guy is a MEXICAN he was living in his own country LOL
Ya but he did manage to beat the system twice, Chapo has to run away! He can’t go to United States or they will lock him up in supermax prison.
Run away he is a mexican he lives in Mexico not the us…
It definitely seems like from the start the various groups in Canada remained much closer to their brethren in Italy. Seems like they always maintained their separate groups more strictly i.e. Ndranghetta, Commora, Cosa Nostra. Also their rivalries! I guess when the Bonnanos first went to Montreal they hooked up with Cotroni and Violi. Im sure they were plenty happy when the Rizzutos took over and planted the Siciliano flag as the Bonnanos were one of the more Siciliano families in the US back then at least. After a generation or two seems like a lot of the American Wiseguys had little connection with Italy anymore. Even the way they used the term Zips as a semi derogatory name. Just two completely opposite directions it seems. The Canadians wanting to stay close to their Italian culture and the Americans going the other way. With the exception of maybe the Chicago Outfit probably most of the American families suffered as a result of falling away from their traditions and now they are scrambling to get back to their old way. Probably a good idea for their sake anyway…The Outfit has always been their own separate animal in many ways. They had Neapolitans in management and several non Italians in leadership positions based on their valuable skills. A lot of the East Coast Wiseguys were actually rooting for Al Capones competition. Many of them assumed that Capone would be shut down by the Siciliano crews in Chicago back then. Of course we know now that things didnt work out that way and when they formally started LCN and The Commission they were in the awkward spot of having no choice but to deal with The Outfit and their more independent way of doing things haha. Bottom line was the Outfit at that time was just too strong and wouldn’t be muscled around by any other Families. Them having a permanent seat on The Commission from the start is a testament to that I think.
The outfit really isn’t all that unique in that sense. It made sense based on the demographics, but Paul Volpe ran an organization very similar, as did papalia.
The only downside is the lack of cultural ties and fluidity and cohesion in the organization. But with that being said, the Americanized Italians lack all of that now anyway.
The cohesion between Canada and Italy is very deep. Toronto is the home of ‘ndrangheta royalty and cosa nostra royalty has also called it home. Same with Montreal.
Five families are kinda a joke in comparison to Canada
Yea I’m not making that comparison about the current status of The Outfit or any other American crews now. No doubt the majority of them are shells of their former selves strength wise. How do you figure Chicago wasn’t unique in their way of doing things? You mentioned Volpe and Papalia? Can you please elaborate? Not being sarcastic I literally dont know anything about those guys. Until that book The Sixth Family came out Id never read anything about Canada so other then the Rizzuto saga Im out of the loop. It was actually the Biker War that woke many Americans up to the crime situation up there and many of us were shocked. I’d always had a totally different impression of Canada. Granted , ive never been there. Anyway I appreciate the info and history.
Volpe only went after his button as a means to furthering himself via mafia connections but he never needed to. He headed a crew of mixed ethnicity in Toronto and achieved pretty substantial sucess in doing so. In those days though in order to progress, being a made guy certainly didn’t hurt. It’s also what brought on his demise.
Papalias crew was also a mixture of non Italians. I’m not even sure labelling him a caporegime is fair. The outfit utilized the same mentality as volpe and papalia- work with the best, not necessarily only Italians.
Papalia was originally aligned with the bonnanos, which is interesting, but chose to align himself with maggadino because his father had done so. The interesting factor there is, had papalia aligned with the bonnanos and been made in that borgata, would it have impacted the rizzuto decision to clip him? Being as they were at some point still subservient to the bonnanos.
But anyways, it isn’t unique to the outfit to have high ranking individuals of non Italian heritage.
Raynald desjardins, Raymond Fernandez, Marvin Elkind, Cecil Kirby got pretty close to the high ups in Canada.
Thanks for the rundown. Now those names that you mentioned bring me back to a discussion we had here last week. The claims made by Fernandez(Bravo) whatever his name is haha. The recordings the government has of him claiming that he and Desjardins were formally inducted (Made) by Vito Rizzuto?? I’ve always been very curious weather or not that is actually true. Like could Vito have actually done that because it was his own Borgata and theoretically he could do whatever he liked in his own family? Or was Fernandez just talking nonsense and bragging. The timeline could have an effect as well. Vito was in prison but just before that he was at the height of his power. They were pretty much independent of the Bonnano Family by that time and so wouldn’t necessarily be bound by the rules of the Commission in the USA. Also didnt Sicily have its own type of Commission. Wasn’t that where the recordings actually made in Sicily. Wasnt it Fernandez making these claims over there to Cosa Nostra guys and they were perplexed by his claims. And yet the hit was already set up. Fernandez thinking he could stay neutral between Vito and Desjardins. I doubt he was just misinterpreting things as he would have gone through the whole Induction Ceremony along with Desjardins. If he was in fact telling the truth about him and Desjardins being made then that would have been precedents setting. Now having Fernandez murdered the very next day and Desjardins doing 14 years has not helped in confirming those claims. Between that and Vito being dead I’d say we’ll never really know. I wonder did Desjardins ever make any comments on that topic??
I don’t know if desjardins was ever caught on wiretap discussing him having been made, but desjardins and fernandez were without a doubt both formally made members.
Vito was such a force and had a progressive mentality. Bosses in Italy respected the rizzuto clan deeply.
I know first hand from the days when Fernandez was in control that that crew was not to be fucked with. He was a perfect gangster really.
I think that Joey Bravo was a stand up guy, be fit in well with the Italians, and basically was one, even though he is Spanish. He spoke Italian, and probably even Sicilian, and was greatly respected. He should have not taken sides with Vito against a non Italian, punk, like Desjardins.
He didn’t choose a side, he stayed neutral, which was equally as dumb.
Strip the rizzuto name from Fernandez (while in Sicily) and he is without a doubt going to be a dead man. Boasting about being made and sitting at the right hand of God to Sicilians while being a non Italian member was a horrible idea. Ego.
When Vito got out and summoned everyone to the DR, anyone who didn’t go should’ve known their lifespan was limited.
That’s what I meant to say, he should have not, not taken asides with Vito. Especially since the Desjardins faction was smaller. It was a great disrespect against Vito, who brought them in, as non Italians, and that how they repayed him. Joey was summoned twice to the DR. No-thing. That’s why Vito got pissed although I feel kinda bad for Joe, he was just trying to stay out of it, they were both his friends. Maybe Vito figured that Joe might be taking sides with Reynaldo and talking bad about him in Sicily, making him look like a fool in Palermo.
He was out there with (from what I know) one guy. Trying to exert authority in Sicily, under vitos banner, and then doesn’t brandish his weapon to fight on Vito’s side in a time of need.
It’s no surprise he got clipped, whatsoever. I get being friends with both sides but let’s be realistic, it wasn’t an argument, it was desjardin trying to take control. What’s right is right and Fernandez should’ve supported Vito entirely.
He was out there with some Portuguese punk from the GTA, a guy called Pimentel. The guys was there at the wrong time when Joe got it from the scaduto bros. Same imbeciles that got ambushed with Michele Modica at California sandwiches. They got caught later because they took Joe’s watch. I guess they weren’t stupid enough to completely mess up the hit on Joe bravo, he was a pretty tough guy.
It was a terrible hit. And didn’t they both talk to police? The scaduto brothers?
I guess being around awful hits and/or hit attempts is in their pedigree.
It wasnt perfect, but again, hits don’t always go according to plan. The main things they screwed up, were the way they did things afterwards. They sold the watch to their friend, and a bunch of other shit which led to them eventually getting caught. Other than that, they got who they were supposed to get, (plus some low time criminal from the GTA, which complicates things, but they got him anyways.) They did it in a secluded construction site, and burned the bodies almost beyond recognition. If it wasn’t for the tip from the watch and their friend that ratted, the police would have had alot harder time catching them.
When you’re involved in a murder, pawning a watch shouldn’t even cross your mind lol.
That’s also mafia 101. It’s petty to rob the corpse. How many times have you heard of made guys getting clipped and having 10k rolexes on and $5k in their pocket.
A watch that if you’re lucky you can get a third of its value for with a potential life sentence on the line. Some people just deserve to get caught.
Fernandez was also tight with joe di mulo probably the 2nd most powerful mob guy in mtl his sister was married to Reynald Desjardins
I know Vito Rizzuto was definitely no joke! He was definitely a one of a kind. His prophetic statement to the cops that would miss him once he was gone couldn’t have been more on point. He was literally the glue holding the whole apparently delicate criminal underworld together up there. Thank you for clarifying that for me though regarding Fernandez and Desjardins. Ive posted that question several times but never got any concrete answers. So you say that Vito made those guys straight up into his family!!!! That is very interesting and as I said before, precedent setting. I realize that Bravo was apparently a tough dude and a capable gangster. I assume Desjardins was at one time also or why would Vito have made him? The way Bravo confidently told those guys in Italy that he and Desjardins had been made, led me to believe it was true because why else would someone make a claim like that. It would have been a death sentence. Bravo was killed anyway but for different reasons. We have all seen other examples of non Italians that were more than just your average associate but this is a whole different status.
Desjardins was very close to Vito. That’s why it’s all the more shocking/disgusting what he did. But let’s remember he took major pinches in order for Vito to walk away clean. I guess some resentment was warranted.
Anything I’ve ever heard regarding desjardins and Fernandez is that they were formally inducted. But, how much weight does that hold internationally? Italians don’t care if you’re a made guy in some offshoot cosa nostra family. It was the rizzuto name that carried the weight, and Fernandez made the wrong choice. So did desjardins. We’d be looking at a very different landscape had they all stayed loyal.
Yes we would. Can you imagine if Vito had never gone off to prison and if his key guys had not gone off the grid. Even with some of the drama already taking place shortly before Vito was locked up his name and Family held great sway in the underworld. He seemed to have a unique talent for keeping all the various crime groups running as a well oiled machine. There are plenty of examples of American Mob Families using street gangs or bikers or whatever as muscle. It seemed fairly ramdom or just opportunistic though. Rizzuto seemed to have them all in line across the country. That takes a certain kind of talent. Just the logistics of the whole operation would have been mind numbing….Im by no means the expert on OC in Canada but Ive read a fair bit about it. My question is did all the other Italian groups fall in line as well? I know there were Families on the West Coast also. Were they completely independent of The Rizzutos or were they all under his banner at that time?
Vancouver had a small mafia presence at one point and the name of the boss evades me, but it’s hells Angels territory and some organized street gangs that mostly fall under the influence of the Angels.
The rizzuto family was unquestionably the most powerful in Canada, but not all Italian OC fell under their banner. Toronto and Hamilton were very much indepdent, however they did work together at times in a very delicate balance that clearly has broken. Rizzuto had his own men in Toronto, and allies such as the caruanas and he had forged some ties with top ‘ndrangheta members but he also had enemies in the siderno group.
The siderno group has never been under the rizzutos.
There has also been guys in Niagara falls, most linked to hamilton and a few other places. Might be a few guys there still, or around the st catherines area. Its all a close drive from niagara falls to hamilton anyways.
dont forget Desjardin was very close to Vito i agree completly but also he was tight with Joe Di Mulo guy goes back to the Cotroni days probably the 2 most powerful guy in Mtl. he was married to his sister. Joe may have been the power behind the scenes
also arcadi and company had Desjardi nbest buddy clipped while rizzuto was in prison. this seems to have really pissed desjardin off.
I think joe di maulo saw his opportunity to be #1 and jumped at it. Let’s be real, desjardins could never have been #1 regardless of if he was ‘made’ or not.
Joe dimaulo was a cotroni loyalist who played the hand he was dealt and knew the times had changed when the rizzutos started to exert dominance. Doesn’t mean he was ever loyal to them.
Also not sure to what extent Moreno Gallo played a role. It’s unfortunate domenico manno wasn’t able to able to settle and consolidate power. I guess that’s just sign of the times. He was #1 when Nic rizzuto sr was in Venezuela, he def has the credentials.
Moreno Gallo turned the paris sport betting over to Toronto
Probably an attempt to get in the good books with the people he foresaw winning the war.
Was crazy when he was clipped in Mexico.
ya the power and i think it was the day same as the anniversary as his fathers or sons assassination. but ya when he was in prison everybody including me wrote the rizzutos off. seemed like a safe bet to side with the rivals
Do you mean gosselin?
I think that was a stupid move. I don’t know for sure but I don’t think he was involved in any dirt, to any real extent. He was a business partner and friend. That was a personal shot and had nothing to do with the streets and shouldn’t have been done, he was basically a civilian.
no he was clipped in revenge while Desjardin was in prion (Gaétan Gosselin) gosselin was actually one of the biggest loan sharks in the city. the name escaped me but Desjardin had a good friend who was in conflict with Arcadi crew over drug territory and they had him clipped this is reportly when desjardin turned his back on the rizzutos
I didn’t know that about gosselin.
I can’t think of who you’re referring to either.
Giovanni «Johnny» Bertolo he was Desjardin good friend he probably would not have been clipped if rizzuto was not in prison. but Arcadi has not diplomacy. you can trace the roots of the mtl mob war to this hits. cause after that desjardins turned his back on them
Vito was still in Canada when bertolo was clipped.
Hard for me to believe he didn’t have a say in it. Although Arcadi may be a bit of a blunt instrument in some senses, I doubt he’d have okayed that hit without Vito’s blessing. Vito made a few crucial errors that certainly contributed to the war starting.
ya he was in Canada (although incarcerated) but this is Canada after all would not be hard for him to get the word out. killing Guisppie Devito mentor and Boss Paloa Gervasis was a critical mistake as well
They shouldn’t have clipped gervasi or even closure in my opinion…
If it was them and not the d’amicos who clipped closure. If it was the d’amicos then serious retaliation would’ve been warranted and expected.
Killing gervasi turned an important and heavy hitting group within the rizzuto scope against the rizzuto administration, and provided allies to the desjardin/di maulo/ mirarchi group. I think they really underestimated just how many people would turn their backs on them.
100%
dont no if you saw this. one of this haitians got 18 years for two murders. or criminal justice system is a real joke lol http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2017/06/15/mafia-montrealaise-deux-meurtres-resolus-cinq-accuses-plaident-coupable
Yea I saw that.
Funny because David Giles (rip) was just facing the same for blow.
Can clip two guys on one side of the country and get 18 years and can conspire to sell some powder on the other side and face the same sentence.. justice system is fucked.
i think Vito arguably may have been the most powerful organised crime figure in North America
I agree with that entirely
Did the old man Nicolo Rizzuto run the show by himself for a long time or was it his plan to pave the way and hand it off to Vito? I could be wrong but just from reading those few books it seemed like Nicolo was happy to pass the torch to Vito rather quickly. Or maybe the two of them together is what gave them that edge!! The hit on the old man is right out of some movie scene!!! The whole scene up there is nuts haha
Nicolo had a very, very long career in the mafia, it isnt the least stressful of jobs and he still had a prominent role up until and even after colisee.
They kinda had a leadership panel, it wasn’t as cut and dry as a typical family. Nicolo acted almost as a consigliere and formal boss while Vito’s role was clearly boss.
I recall a conversation between Vito and a bonnano snitch, I forget who, where Vito said there was no boss in Montreal and something along the lines of there being only ten or so men of honour.
Goes to show how much he cared about the ties to the bonnanos.
Oh yea I’m sure they had long since stopped caring about ties to The Bonnanos. I think they used that relationship for what it was worth . It was one thing when they were dealing with Bonnano himself or Galante but that era is over. I doubt they cared about them especially after George Sciasca was killed. Its no secret Vito was unhappy about that one. Massino sealed the schism with that move. When you say Vito said there are only ten real men of honor up there what did he mean? That he only considered ten of his guys to be trustworthy or was he talking about the Bonnanos when he made that comment?
no that there only a handful of made men in Canada. i guess he was more selective of who got made
when George from Canada was killed by Massino he sent Vitale (Snitch) to Montreal try and appease the Rizzutos. they offered Capo and asked who the boss up here was i think he said we all are…
i dont think theres a lot of Made guys in the Rizzutos. Just the very top people. when Giordarno got wacked last March they said he was one of the last made guys…
I don’t think there are/were more than 20 formal members that belong to the rizzuto family.. it’s so factional that I think it’s more of a loose conglomerate with the rizzutos having been the dominant group.
I’m not sure if ‘made’ membership was of any importance in some of the other groups ie the devito group, or if they were formally inducted and under a different banner and only paid tribute to the rizzuto. That’s one common theory for the war, was that the different clans were trying to have a more democratic set up and not have to be subservient to any one group or boss.
its confusing even Arcadi, Cuntrera, those are clans as well. but appear in the rizzuto orch chart. its like a crew in the American Mob is a clan up here.
Clan is more related by blood as opposed to a crew
It really is or was a very unique setup in Canada…The thought of Montanga asking Rizzuto senior to step aside shows what a joke they had become. Asking that while the family was nearly self destructing in NYC. Then like you guys said with some of these characters belonging to different clans but flying under the Rizzuto banner. If some of these guys were already made back in Italy or members of N’draghetta cells then no need to be formally inducted into any North American Families. That’s another question that has been posted in the past, can a guy actually have dual membership in Crime Family’s.. is that even allowed? Formal Induction to more then one group? Makes sense then the way Vito had it more of a conglomerate with all these different Mafia Cultures. He pulled it off though for a good while!!
Thats true but Arcadi and cuntrera groups both flew under the rizzuto banner.
Agostino was very much a rizzuto loyalist from the start. His bloodline is mafia royalty so I wonder if he was made into a Sicilian clan or into the rizzutos or both.
Also have to wonder who made guys like Arcadi etc that were close to same age as Vito or older, nicolo?
Arcadi was around in the Controni days and is Calabrian if im not mistaken could have been made by them.
Yea he is calabrian. That’s true.
Montreal very unique dynamic.
Was pretty stupid move to kill him. I think that was basically the final straw for rizzutos caring about their ties to the bonnanos. He turned down capo because at that point it would’ve completely been a formality, he didnt need it.
Wonder if that was the same kinda mentality sal montagna had with his push in Montreal, the bonnano connection and that Montreal was at a time subservient to them.
he thought cause he was from New york people would just bow down. he underestimated. rumor has it he approached Rizzuto Senior and asked him to step down so younger blood can control the family
Haha ya I have heard that too.
Talk about earning getting killed. Approaches the patriarch of one of the most powerful crime syndicates on the planet and tries to pressure him to step down. He was a kid in comparison, absolutely idiotic move and indicative of the quality of mafiosi some of the younger generations are producing.
Nicolo put in decades to create and maintain that organization, montagna was ‘boss’ simply because they really didn’t have any other remotely worthwhile candidates. It’s almost like gotti having approached Carlo and saying to step down.
I have to save the outfit was very unique at one time and that the higher management consisted of different ethnic backgrounds. They had Jews and Greeks operating within the inner circle of the outfit. And they were able to Branch out to the big unions in the Midwest. They have very little competition. there were practically the only family operating in Chicago. They were definitely a Powerhouse to be reckoned with at one time. I saw an image of the outfit structure from the 50s and 60s. They actually had a political wing! So they had outfit guys that communicated directly with politicians. If you ever get a chance just try to Google that image of the outfit structure. there were definitely big!
I agree about the five families they just seem to lack the old school tradition that Canada currently possesses. The five families have disintegrated with time. They’ve essentially become a street gang.
what do you think they gross per year?
Good question from all the different rackets legitimate and illegal definitely in the Millions.
I mean the Lucchese crime family just got busted for a construction job on a Hospital in the Bronx and they were collecting millions of dollars on just this project.. so multiply that plus the other rackets..
The Chicago outfit actually had and still has alot of people descended from Bari in southern Italy in the family and leadership, such as Anthony Spilotro, Joey the clown Lombardo, the DiFronzos, Solly D, and many others. You also had/have alot of sicilians like Joey doves aiuppa, Ricca, and so many others. Ya there are Napolitano people and Calabrian in Chicago, but they are mostly in new York. Chicago is mainly Sicilian and Barese. The patriarcas and the Rizzuto family also have leaders/members of Barese descent, such as Stefani Sollecito who is from grumo appula in Bari, and DiNunzio is a surname originally from Bari.
Good to know about Rica. I had thought he was Napolitano also. In my earlier post I was more referring to when Capone was running it and some of the more Castalamarese heavy families from NYC rooting for Capones Siciliano rivals during their conflicts. Upon the creation of LCN and the Commission those families had no choice but to sit at the same table as the Outfit. I get the impression that the Outfit was probably the least traditional of the permanent Commission members back then anyway. The fact that they were a permanent Commission Family and that most of the smaller families West of them had to go through them for representation is a testament to their strength as a Family.
Yes Al Capone was probably the most famous Neapolitan in Chicago. And I agree, the outift, was and still to and still to an extent is, a very strong family in its special way. Everything was done a but differently there, but it still always warranted great deals of respect, and none of the new York families would ever screw with them, event though the outfit was roughly the same size as only one of the five families.
I read little Al d’arco book about him running the Lucchese family.. I remember him talking very highly about the Chicago outfit. The boys from New York were impressed with what was going on in the Midwest and they all cousins living in the Chicago area and were connected to the outfit.
I do believe with their ties to Italy they will be more stronger and the longevity will be there. People in New York say that it’s been too late for them to recruit from Italy for the five families.. in my opinion the New York syndicates just too greedy and stuck in their own ways. Yes the gambino still have a pipeline of Sicilians but they want to keep things more domestic which is the wrong direction in my opinion.
The Musitanos are the smallest of the 3 crime families in Hamilton with the Papalia and Luppino families being the other two, the Papalia family having the largest control in the area. The HA has infiltrated the area quite a bit within the last decade and were responsible for the fire bombing of Pat Musitanos residence. This is far from over in the fight for control in the Hamilton area.
It was his SUV that was lit on fire.
Papalia family consists of who at this point?
Yes it was the SUV that was set afire and ties still remain within LIUNA and the UFCW and other construction and real estate sectors involving the Mancini’s, Corsini’s, Pugliese’s, Monaco’s and Macaluso’s to name a few. I would agree they may not be as prominent as they once were in the hey dey of early Hamilton through the Gold Key Club years but they are still around.
The Musitanos are the smallest of the 3 crime families in Hamilton with the Papalia and Luppino families being the other two, the Papalia family having the largest control in the area. The HA has infiltrated the area quite a bit within the last decade and were responsible for the fire bombing of Pat Musitanos residence. This is far from over in the fight for control in the Hamilton area.
Since we were commenting on unique Families etc… I wanted to bring up Detroit. They tend to get underrated at times. If you look at them back then , they had a unique blend of total old school traditions as well as unorthodox setups at least for that time period. They practiced keeping it in the bloodlines in a big way in some aspects. They had more independent systems in other areas as well. On one hand they heavily intermarried between a few families and most of those names were part of the Administration throughout their history. On the other hand they started using the whole Street Boss system way back when. They had the Giacalones running things out front long before other families started doing that. They also had some high level non Italian associates that carried a fair amount of sway. They had that crew of mostly Arabs and a few Jews ironically enough running a huge gambling ring. Those guys were not just flunky wannabes at all. They were one of the few families outside of NYC who didnt always have to go through Chicago to be heard by the Commission. I believe they even had a seet themselves on the Commission for a while. The Feds eventually cut them down pretty badly like most other families but they definitely weren’t infested with Rats. Maybe this is off topic but I just wanted to throw some props to Detroit just for the hell of it.
If Detroit was more demographically favourable for an Italian OC group, they’d have achieved much, much more success in my opinion.
Their structure was/is basically perfect.
on a side not i work for a big american company i was actually in Detroit last week. they advised not to leave our hotels or go to certain parts of the city. never seen so many abandon building wow
Companies do the same in other cities too ie memphis, New Orleans. Probably just a liability thing to make sure their asses are covered in the off chance an employee gets shot.
Detroit is in shambles though absolutely. Makes Toronto ghettos look like Beverly Hills.
Lol, that’s just the city itself. Suburban Detroit is actually beautiful area.
Oh ya, bunch of beautiful neighbourhoods outside of the city. A lot of american cities like that. Its funny that whole concept of “inner city” is a thing of the past for many north american urban centres.
Toronto’s inner city for example is so gentrified that it is actually boring now. Fifteen years ago at least there was some flavour to the city. But I guess its a fine line lol
All those Rustbelt cities are basically finished!!! Look at any crime statistics over the past 10 years and you’ll see Detroit, St. Luis, Chicago, and Nashville in the top five for violent street crimes and Homicides. Chicago at least has famous Universities, Meuseums etc… to attract tourists and keep people spending money there. That’s been their saving grace. All those other Midwest and Southern cities started to spiral downwards once their various industries dried up or moved away. I doubt there are many tourists with Baltimore on their to do lists haha. Those places are just fucked pure and simple. Once the Crack era hit in the 90’s, they were all finished. Also I agree with you that Detroit neerly had the perfect system going for an Organized Crime Family. They aren’t finished though.. If they had recruited more guys they may have fared better against some of the bigger indictments but then part of their strength was making quality guys who were blood relations. Kind of a double edged sword for them.
They have more guys then reported anywhere. You can kinda guess who might be. Even then very hard. A lot of Italians on east side and everyone knows each other.
I’m not saying all those LCN Families in the Rustbelt are finished. I meant the cities themselves are finished. All that industry just dried up or moved overseas. That was the end for some of those cities… Vacant buildings all over, street crime just running amok. Its a shame cuz some of those towns have cool history and lots of solid local people. There are a number of smaller Valley Towns in California that suffered the same fate. Local governments literally went bankrupt during the Recession. Stockton was one of the worst. These places are crime ridden shitholes now. Speaking of shitholes, what about Baltimore? Ive tried to read up and checkout the Mafia history there. Not too much written about it. Seems they had a Family but not sure if they were independent or a satellite of The Outfit or one of the NYC Families. If anyone knows about Baltimore LCN lay it on me.
What I know about the Baltimore family was that it was a small independent family, maybe larger than your average crew operating in Baltimores (still significant) little Italy. Then it was turned into a crew under the more powerful Gambino family. It is supposed to be extinct since the 90’s, but I would wonder if there are still a few Gambino guys that do some stuff down there, who knows, the Gambino’s are huge and Baltimore isn’t THAT far from new york. It probably comes down to if money can be made there, if it’s worth it to send guys down there, or if there are some wise guys still there. If you look at Baltimores little Italy, there’s still tons of Italian run businesses and influence down there and it’s decently sized. Where there are little Italy’s there’s usually bound to be atleast a few “connected guys”. Who knows.
Another interesting topic is some of these Bosses over the years who lead small families themselves but held huge influence in LCN as a whole. Santo Trafficante Jr and Carlos Marcello are more obvious because of the locations of their families with regards to Cuba and Bootlegging routes back in those days. Still these guys had immense power without having large families or sitting on The Commission. Then guys like Russel Bufalino. Just a small family in an unremarkable area like Scranton? But he himself was called upon to settle disputes and other tasks for The Commission. Seems like for whatever reason a few of these Bosses just held great sway without having an army of guys backing them up. Trafficante seemed to be involved in every major decision about the direction of The Mob over the years. These guys appeared to have all been tied in to anything to do with Cuba, CIA, Kennedy’s, Hoffa etc… Just interesting to me that these guys had such power within LCN as a whole yet their actual crime families seems insignificant numbers and strength wise??
Very true, Marcello and Trafficante’s were very powerful and respected. The new York families had to get santo trafficante’s blessing before operating in Florida. The new York families! And in the 1970’s they were even bigger and more powerful than today. Even Frank Balistrieri the boss of Milwaukee was feared, even by tough guys in new york like lefty two guns Ruggiero. I doubt that any of these families had more than 30-50 made guys in their peaks, yet they were so tight knit that they got stuff done, and had great Influence. Same goes for the Kansas city family and Cleveland back in the day, and the Bufalino family. I think one of the reasons they were so tight knit is because if you look at the demographics of those cities/families, they are mostly of Sicilian origin, and probably followed the old school traditions and familial ties. Similar to how Detroit still operates to this day. While in places on the north east coast like New York and philly, you had hundreds or thousands of gangsters/criminals, all from different parts (of mainly southern) Italy. So, things were harder to organize and loyalties weren’t as strong.
Now Carlos Marcello was a trip. I forget where I read it but something to the effect of him not really planning for his Family to go on without him. Like he intentionally didn’t Induct a lot of young blood into his Family. Not exactly sure his motives for that but he seemed to have no qualms about his crew fading away once he was dead.. There has been a lot of back and forth on here about weather or not any of that Family still exists at all today. I’m not sure that there is a functioning Borgata anymore but there is a few old Wiseguys left around down there. Trafficante had a below the radar location as well. Its not like Tampa was exactly prime real estate haha. They say Miami was an open city but guys still had to get the ok from him to do things in Florida. I believe it was Trafficante’s unique connection to Cuba that may have been his power. I’m not sure what Bufalinos ace in the hole was but he was definitely respected amongst the other Bosses. Even Sam the Plumber was used to help mediate certain disputes between Families and The Commission… just a handful of these seemingly random Bosses with very small Families of their own but carrying serious clout with The Commission… Maybe there is no connection with any of them. They finally came out with a book on Jimmy Lanza and the San Francisco Family. I was all excited but there simply just isnt that much written about him so no mind blowing revelations in that book.. still a decent historical account of LCN in The Bay Area…There is a just a few old articles from Time, Playboy, and Look magazines plus all the stuff in Frattiano’s Biography. If anyone out there has more info on any of the small Bay Area Families, please let me know.
Yep Lanza and the SF family is definitely neat, and another under the radar family. He seems to me similar to Marcello(intentionally not making alot of guys). Those guys had alot of interests in North Beach, sf’s historical little Italy.who knows if alot of these guys are still around doing bookmaking and loansharking/modern day low risk extortion, but it’s pretty low key so it’s not even worth it for the major investigation. Of course it’s unlikely and all speculation, but it is a secret society, and it’s hard for even the FBI to pick up on a few guys making moves, or it’s simply not worth their time.
Being a SF native I can tell you that at one time The City had a fair amount of Italians but it was much more of an Irish and Chinese City. A lot of the Italian population started moving out of the city and to the suburbs as they saw what was once a great Blue Collar Working Mans town, quickly turn into a f*****g circus. We still have NorthBeach but much like NYC it’s basically becoming a tourist attraction and is almost absorbed by Chinatown which is right next door…Much of the Irish and Italians would know each other because us natives are a dying breed and went to the same Catholic schools…There are Balistreri’s here . The City is literally about %65 Asian at this point and then a bunch of Skinny Jean wearing punks on their bicycles. They all come here and basically have taken over. They think they can talk to people any way they want and then are shocked when they end up getting a slap lol… They think iys cool to live in the ghetto and cant figure out why they occasionally get jacked in the Projects…anyway ive gone way off topic on this rant haha…Chinatown has mostly had the Organized Crime scene all sewn up but they don’t deal with outsiders for the most part..Lots of HA’s also but they have no enemies here so they have it pretty easy. Yes the Hipster Mafia is the most insidious criminal menace to this city haha…
What a shame, I can empathize with you too, Toronto is also mostly minorities (Asians, Indians, musls, blacks) and most of the remaining whites are a bunch of cuckold fags who are letting their culture die in front of their eyes, and promote it. I think also that alot of the Italians that went to the west coast were northern Italians compared to the east coast and Midwest that had more southern Italians, aka more mafia, although I’m aware that San Fransisco did have a decent amount of sicilians and some other southerners. (Lanza and his family for instance.) And Asian organized crime in the us is pretty localized to their own Chinatown’s and stuff like you said, they don’t have real major influence over other groups.
I will say one thing about the Asians. They work hatd and dont ask for hand outs. SF’s Chinatown is the oldest in America. They’ve had OC groups operating here since the 1800’s. They tend to keep their world very private to themselves same as the original Italians did as well. A lot of West Coast towns and cities mostly just have Asian Street Gangs but SF has had proper Mob like groups for many years. Definitely more sophisticated then other cities. They keep a fairly strict pecking order also. The Chinese historically on top due to how long they’ve been here and got organized… they are the ones wearing suits and pretending to have an heir of respectability. They have younger gangs handle the heavy work. Their main cashcow has always been gambling and brothels. If you end up owing them money it will be a Vietnamese guy coming to collect. They use violence sparingly but when they do its always way overboard. They’ll have Vietnamese come and murder an entire family just to make a point. Pure savagery every time. The flip side of that is you would never find them selling dope on corners or robbing innocent people on the street. For the most part they will only deal within their own community as well. Not much snitching either. There are neighborhoods full of ghetto rats selling dope and generally abusing the public yet they won’t dare walk inside a Vietnamese Sandwich Shop and step out of line. They know damn well an AK will be produced immediately and chop them down. They may not be the toughest dudes around with fisticuffs but lets just say all the lame Hoodrats don’t test them if they know better haha…Just think back to the 90’s Rodney King riots in LA and see how the Asians protected their businesses shooting looters from rooftops… at least they didn’t lay down like punks and let the savages take what they worked hard for…I can’t help but respect how they handled that situation. Of course they were demonized by the press and some were prosecuted while the animals ran amok terrorizing the city.
I’ve also always found trafficante and marcello very interesting. A lot of the smaller families are very interesting.
I think it was natural that marcello would command the respect he did, being as the New Orleans family was (I believe) the oldest. So it makes sense to give them the nod, as their roots were the deepest in the United States so they were probably deeply entrenched in every facet of Louisiana society.
I haven’t done a ton of reading on Kansas City, Cleveland, Trafficante, or Marcello, but I think too a lot of their power was based on their political reach, and the idea of ‘national crime syndicate’ was much stronger in those days, whereas today each individual family is pretty much struggling on their own let a lone worrying about cohesion with other families (unless its to make money).
I totally agree especially about sending guys to any open cities where there is money to be made. Thats kinda what the whole online gambling thing is. Most of those websites are kicking up to some family. New Orleans was the oldest actual Borgata to my knowledge also. The whole state was completely corrupt and with Marcellos fierce personality, that was the perfect match. He was meant to be a real pistol of a guy but not a greedy boss. Seems like his guys were loyal and genuinely respected him. Them guys down South all have bizarre connections to Government Scandal with The Kennedy’s, Cuba, Dallas. I assume Cuba was the common denominator there with all the different theories about The Mob and The Kennedy’s. I only read one book about Kansas City. It was written by a retired FBI Agent who had tracked that family before he retired. It mostly just goes into the whole River Kay little family civil war they had. It had a fair amount of detail but I guess the author didnt have a Ghost Writer because the book kinda reads like a police report chronology of events. Not exactly an entertaining read and I hoped it was more of a overall history of The Cevillas. I believe its called “Mobsters in Our Mist” by William J Ousley. Quick side note, on the Gangster Report website they sometimes have transcripts from bugs planted in Detroit with the Giacalone Bros. they mention during a conversation that the Cevillas are known to be legitimate tough guys. The Giacalones themselves were tough guys so I guess those were solid compliments coming from them. From what Ive read about Cleavland they made a lot of their money actually selling the Sugar and other ingredients to make booze during Prohibition…they had a pretty solid reputation also until the whole Danny Greene mess. Figures leave it to the crazy Mick to fuck things up properly for that family. One Family I know very little about is Maggadino in upstate New York…
An old timer from NJ told me that Baltimore was too difficult to organize. That’s why only the Corbo crew w/ the Gambino’s was in the Little Italy in B’More. The city was too black and rough to control. That conversation I had took place in the 80’s. So nowadays, I doubt vert seriously that OC is in B’More. The Philly Family had reps there in the past.
I’m not saying a full fledged family or even a big crew, but maybe a few of guys like reps. Like i said there’s still plenty of Italian run businesses in the little Italy, regardless of the demographics of the rest of Baltimore..
Ya I think the top dogs in Baltimore OC have basically always been black. I’d imagine you’re right and there are a few reps from families out there, though. Basically any place where money can be made LCN finds their way in, to some extent.
While we’re entirely off topic of what the original post was, one thing that has always surprised me is how little of a presence historically LCN has had in LA, or California in general.. I know LA had their own family and San Jose and SF did too (or crews), but it seems like there is so much money to be made out there so for there not to be multiple active families out there is very bizarre.
I’m gonna attempt to answer this the best I can. First off the West Coast is so different in many ways then the East Coast. On tio of that, Northern California is almost like a separate state from Southern California. San Francisco would have much more in common with an East Coast city then it would with LA. Although SF is much smaller then LA its more of an actual city in many ways. Skyscrapers, subway system, structures built up ad not out due to lack of space. At one point SF was a proper working mans town with strong Labor Unions etc…also the neighborhoods were either Irish, Italian, Chinese etc… not just miscellaneous white people. LA never really had that type of flavor. Besides all the blacks and Mexicans its just White WASPS. They dont say I’m polish or Irish. Or they’re straight up Redneck Cowboys. At one point SF had a proper Little Italy in North Beach. Lanza senior brought his family from Sicily when they were quite young first to NYC and then to SF during Prohibition. There was a fair amount of bloodshed during Bootlegging and eventually Lanza was Boss. It was a very small family but traditional like any other city. LA just never had many Italians or a neighborhood to call their own. Apparently Dragna was fairly well respected but didnt have a lot of capable guys in his family. It was a hodgepodge of guys from all over the USA and the Outfit was always leaning on them because of their interest in Hollywood. According to Frattiano there were very few killers in the family and that didnt help their standing in LCN Especially after Dragna died.
SF had a mix of locals, Zips, and guys from the East Coast in their small Borgata but Lanza had grown up in the city and it was his domain. He layed extremely low and that paid off for him. Also even though its been embellished a lot there is truth to SFPD and LAPD not letting Wiseguys from out of town get a foothold in California. Frattiano thought Lanza had all of SF to himself and did nothing with it. That may be true but Frattiano spent half his life in the can. Eventually most of the Italians moved out of SF as it turned into a Hippy fuckingCircus and not many Italians were moving here. So they faded away as well as San Jose. LA continually got walked on by other families. Plenty of Wiseguys from NYC and other cities have set up shop in LA and just do whatever they want and still do to some extent with p**n and Gambling etc…I think their days were numbered as soon as Jack Dragna died. Both cities are a joke now. SF is run by Communists and LA is a gang infested shithole.
Agreed for sure, I don’t know what is stopping any east coast or other LCN groups from planting a flag out there… gotta be plenty of money to be made on a more organized scale than any of the ms-13’s/blood/crip/surrenos/nortenos etc.
Maybe the lack of real and historic entrenchment. They just aren’t as woven into the fabric of that state.
I’ll tell ya right now all that nonsense about MS-13 is pure media hype!!! Sure there is plenty of little cliques all over America but they are not some Super Gang closely networked with a Ruling Panel or anything…They are just ignorant little savages who are trying to one up the next group for the attention. For whatever reason they became the medias little darlings back in the late 90’s and its like the news media, Feds, even politicians can’t seem to get enough. They are no more sophisticated then the next scumbag street gang down the block. I’d say the only Organized Crime group other then LCN that has any real sophistication is La Eme Mexican Mafia prison gang. They were clever enough to bring all those shitbag Sureno gang members into their fold under penalty of death. They have proven they are capable of reaching out and touching someone just about anywhere. I’m no fan but they do legitimately run the California prison system despite some stiff competition…The Mongols MC tried to war with them and were getting picked off quickly until the MC booted their own leadership and asked for a truce. A street tax was imposed and paid.
I’m not really sure how sophisticated La Eme is. I know they have a structure and a hierarchy and codes of conduct but… their headquarters are federal prison. I guess some LCN leadership is headquartered in penitentiaries as well but it’s a different dynamic.
I’m saying in comparison with other street gangs and also prison gangs specifically in California they are at the top of the pecking order. I dont mean necessarily to compare them with LCN. They have the luxury of controlling the California State Prison system which gives them real clout considering most gangsters will end up there or their family members will. All the Eme Shotcallers are doing life so they have nothing to lose anyway. As far as gangs go, they are miles ahead of the others in organizational skills and the ability to call on roughly 50,000 Sureno gang members to do their bidding. Its a very different set up in the Fed Prisons or East Coast Prisons. Wiseguys dont often end up in California State Prison so never been any issues that Im aware of. Frattiano actually claims in his book that a few of the Eme heavyweights offered to back him up when word was out that the LA Family was turning against him. It hadn’t yet become public knowledge that he was an informant though. My main point was the media hyping up some of these other gangs and it’s totally bullshit, especially MS-13!!! A few jerkoff MS13 guys shot up a minivan and killed a father and his two sons here in SF in a case of mistakenly thinking they were Nortenos. The clown is getting life with no parole and he’s all proud of himself in the courtroom. Total piece of shit yes but Super Transnational Crime Syndicate, NO!!!
The one thing about them is they all for the most part own their own legitimate businesses or have a legitimate job. I know a few of the staples they run but other than that very under the radar.
Im an East Coast guy living in New York City but I really do admire the Detroit outfit or partnership as they call it. And you are correct they are interwoven with family blood which makes it very hard to rat on each other.. I recall reading an article where they like to keep the crews small and the prophets High.. but they definitely have a lot of history and the underworld especially the Jimmy Hoffa error. These guys were really infiltrating the unions. It wouldn’t surprise me if they were equal if not more organized in the Chicago outfit which is undergoing serious issues. And the Detroit Leadership are low-key guys totally anti Gotti. And yes the Rust Belt Italians are pretty much extinct. I have to tell you though there are a lot of Italians moving in New Jersey via Staten Island and the other boroughs..it wouldn’t surprise me if the next decade or so leadership of the five families will be relocated there…IMO.
I also agree that currently Detroit is probably in better shape then the Outfit. They’re small but have stable and solid leadership I also think the Feds just dont have as big a hard-on for Detroit as they do for The Outfit. Most of these guys operate in the suburbs and have for a while now. I mean what’s a guy gonna do, set up a social club in the middle of the Projects haha. The days of Giancana and friends strongarming guys on the South Side of Chicago are long gone. It’s like f*****g Falluja around there now. Not a good place to be a Whiteboy no matter how tough you are lol…
Profits…not prophet..
Sorry about the typo this was audio text on my part
And here I thought Detroit LCN was the second coming we’ve all been waiting for. Hey if ISIS can use Crime as a Prophet then why not Detroit lol…
🙂
Got a flat in southside chicago a few years ago.
Long story short, I’m not exactly a pansy but I can say with absolute honesty that it was probably the most certain I’ve ever been that I would die. They certainly don’t have much love for white boys with Ontario plates, put simply.
I too once found myself at the Greyhound Bus Station in the Southside of Chicago. This would have been abut 1996 maybe. I was talking on a Payphone and a guy in basically a Pimp suit approached me, opened his jacket which had a full display of gold chains, necklaces etc…Felt like I was living an episode of “Good Times”.. it was actually quite funny though.. I dont think whiteboys are welcome there no matter what License Plate you have lol… we have plenty of projects and ghettos in SF but nothing like that…Highrise projects in all directions for miles..Im no slouch myself but I dont mind admitting I was definitely in a hurry to get the hell out of there. What was I doing as a 19 year old whiteboy at the Bus Station near Cabrini Greens? Another story for another time haha…
Cabrini green was torn down before 96 and it was near north side not on the south side if I’m not mistaken… are we telling fibs now!!??
No I was just using that name as a reference that others may have heard of before but you are correct sir! People hear that name and it conjures up an image in their minds which is what I was attempting there
I’m just breaking your balls
I know it…. gotta keep it interesting on here. How about these kids today. I’ll bet they’ve never even heard of the show “Good Times”! The suburban kids wanna be rappers wearing saggy pants and hats on sideways. Jerkoffs….
south side chicago lol are you crazy
Suv firebombed last week just outside of toronto little Italy and three guys shot outside of sportsbar in Vaughn and confirmed its OC related
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/justice-et-affaires-criminelles/faits-divers/201708/16/01-5125174-un-executant-de-la-mafia-assassine-pres-dun-parc.php another montreal mob hit last night
Guest list of Ang Musitano’s wedding released. Some real curveballs.
Big Joe Cuntrera was there, Cosimo Commisso, Natale Luppino, Domenic Violi, other lupines and violis, Domenico Figliomeni, Antonio Sergi. Adds even more layers of confusion. Cuntreras house was shot up not long ago. Antonio Sergi was killed not long before Ang was. But these were guys that most would have pinned as likely rivals. That being said, we all know mob etiquette. Your murderer will show up at your funeral and kiss your mother, so I don’t know how much weigh the wedding guest list carries. But interesting to say the least.
Cuntrera’s are major rizutto allies (or were), commissos are def not, neither are the violis and the luppinos for the most part seemed to have remained neutral but more loyal to the siderno group. Figliomeni is Jimmy Demaria son in law, demaria is nicola cortese cousin, who was in montreal at some pretty suspicious times around major hits. also allied with sam calautti, who is considered prime suspect in nicolo rizutto hit. All of these people who most have theorized to be in opposition consorting in one room leads me further to believe it may not be solely an inter-mob thing, and that maybe the angels have a bigger hand than people think.
Bunch of guys in mtl had charges stayed from clemenza, haven’t seen names yet. Wonder what impact it will have.
Many are saying Angelo Musitano was killed for the Johnny Pop’s hit by the Luppinos with backing from Buffalo. Bruno Monaco (A Buffalo Capo) talked with Angelo Musitano two days before Angelo was killed, Monaco was also in Buffalo having a talk with alleged boss Frank BiFulco.