36 Comments

  1. JohnGrant213

    Would be shocked if either of these guys get off here and if they are both sent away for a long while it could be one of the last hits for the Rizzuto family and that change in control in Montreal may be approaching quickly. It seems inevitable one way or the other but many thought the Rizzuto’s were dead and done 2 yrs ago and yet the war still rages on so I guess we never can tell but it would seem to be a major setback if both leaders go away.

    • Franco

      Exactly, it seems like the Rizzuto’s have been screwed over a while ago but keep hanging on. We have to remember that not very long ago, the were the most powerful crime family in Canada, much stronger than the Siderno group and with tons of money+connections (with huge construction companies and higher ups) than the Calabrians didn’t have to the same extent. Even though they keep taking hits, and arent as powerful like before Vito got locked up, their empire didn’t crumble over night. Also, the Calabrians have taken hits as of late as well, and many of their guys have been deported back to Italy by the government in the last few years. It’s definitely interesting to see if any particular group will be the dominant one in Canada, or if it will stay neutral or in flux. Whoever the players are, I can guarantee you that it will be Italians. There is no way the hells angles or any other group will be on top of the Italians, the HA have their place as respected players and they have a presence on the street, but whoever thinks they can overtake the mob in their turf is sadly a fool. Italian organzied crime has a level of unmatched intricacy in organized crime and numbers, no group in present day Canada can possibly rival them.

      • JohnGrant213

        I def agree the HA’s wont eclipse the Italians over all in Montreal etc but I think the HA’s are rebuilding again and with the mafia families dragging out this war and all sides taking hits who ever comes out on top will def have to bring the Angels to the table and work out some sort of new arrangement.

        • Tommy

          It’s ironic because the Italians (specifically Vito) helped bring and end to the biker wars of Quebec, which resulted in the Quebec angels being nearly extinct, now the Italians are doing the same thing amongst themselves.

          • Cedz

            not trying to start a fight but many people are saying HA have eclipsed the mob in Quebec. the have more patched members then at the height of the biker wars. and they have 7 clubs doing there dirty work

          • IntheknowD

            Yeah I was kind of thinking the same as you. In general most bikers don’t seem to have the same business savvy, however it seems as though not just anyone has been targeted but those that can grab the reigns. A few of the victims have even been allegedly retired or at least semi. Which has made me think they have been targeting anyone who might step up.

            Also have feeling it’s multiple groups working together. So think Italians will have control of certain aspects while others takeover different rackets. That’s the funny part about power vacuums, you never now who has the ambition and sees an opportunity to fill the void.

          • Franco

            If this war finally comes to an end soon, then maybe the Italians have room to reorganize, especially if the leaders of the various groups come together for the most part and are friendly towards each other. If the mob can reorganize and settle down, and the HA take another big law enforcement blow, it’s possible the Italians can go back to having major leverage on them. For now, at least in my own opinion, the Italians still have an edge on any other groups, but this war and the resulting turmoil has let other groups try and step up to the plate.

          • Tommy

            I agree with you that it is a combination of groups targeting the rizzutos as well as infighting that adds another layer of complexity.

            My own theory is that the Commissos are likely the driving force, maybe even with cooperation or support from the d’amicos, and probably some Angels, and using street gang members for some of the dirty work. Vito had ties and even friendly relationships from some ‘ndrangheta guys, but was never on particularly good terms with the Commisso’s, who are, in terms of manpower and reach, one of the strongest clans in the GTA and globally. And these guys have memories, as we know. Remo Commisso was Paolo Violis man in Toronto. As we know, the Rizzutos killed Violi to make room for the Sicilian takeover of Montreal. Remo is a guy who had the sons of his fathers murderer killed in siderno 35 years after his fathers murder. So it is very likely he remembers his friend paolo violis untimely death.

            I’d even say that the Commissos would go as far as to have some of the Calabrese from the violi/cotroni days killed if they sided with the Sicilians after they took the reigns.

            Cedz is right, there is no single godfather of Montreal anymore, and that is likely how it will remain, just as it’s always been in Toronto. We’ve never really had one single ‘boss’, the city is just too big, Montreal was unique in the sense that it was comprised of multiple factions all working somewhat cohesively but with the big 5 (nicolo, Vito, arcadi, sollecito,renda) being the equivalent of a New York families administration. In present times, especially in North American cities, it’s so multi cultural and progressive that having a strictly Italian organization is almost impossible. Paul volpe recognized this in the 70s. That is where the Wolfpack alliance is making the smart move, forming a group of talented criminals regardless of ethnic background to achieve the mutual goal of making money.

          • Franco

            Yes, but the thing about multiethnic organizations is that there is more room for rats when they get busted. You may argue the same for some Italian groups in the states like the new York families, but the strongest families are the families who are tied to each other by blood, ethnicity, and marriage such as Detroit. To work with other groups is a major benefit forsuccess in the modern age, but to be in the same organization, ehhh I don’t know. This wolfpack alliance thing is relatively new and unknown. Let’s give it a few more years, see how long it lasts. Maybe it will maybe it won’t, who knows. Look at what happened when Vito Rizzuto started letting non Italians get close to him, the outcome was not favorable.

          • Tommy

            I’d say the second third and fourth generation Italians that are canadianized/Americanized are just as likely to rat as any full patch angel. I’d venture to guess that when comparing membership numbers in North America of the Hells Angels and all Mafia groups, the Italians likely produce more rats.

            And truthfully, Vito was partially to blame for desjardins resentment. Vito walked multiple times while desjardins did heavy time and kept his mouth shut, and Vito’s power and wealth blew up while desjardins was caged, so I understand why desjardins would want the same for himself when Vito was away. I don’t think it has anything to do with him being non Italian. A lot of Italians loyalties shifted while Vito was away too. It has to do with being an opportunist in a dog eat dog situation.

          • Franco

            That’s true, but at the same time, Vito was the boss, what did Desjardins expect, for Vito to go away for him. Plus, Vito did time in jail himself. Desjardins was jealous that the Italians were gaining the wealth, while he as a native French Canadian was below them. And most of the inter fighting between the Italians stemmed from the long lasting Rizzuto vs Violi/Cotroni situation. Basically all the Sicilians who were loyal to Vito from the beginning co tinued to be loyal, and as well as the rest of the Italian who weren’t related to the violis/Cotroni. For example the Sollecito’s who come from Puglia in southern Italy, or even Frank Arcadi, who is Calabrese but not related to the Calabrese faction. Due to the less heirarchy based ndrangheta being in power, there is less people who are clearly defined leaders; a boss of bosses if you will. (Except for a guy all the way in siderno.) If the sicilians managed to find one specific person that was highly respected from both sides, things would settle down, but it’s hard to find guys like Vito Rizzuto…

          • Tommy

            I didn’t catch this earlier but Arcadi wasn’t loyal to the Rizzutos. He was loyal to vito and Nicolo. He rebelled against the leadership table of Leonardo and Stefano, believing he deserved the top spot (which in all fairness he probably did). That’s why Giordano was killed and del Balso (Arcadis key leiutenants) was targeted.

          • Franco

            Makes sense. Franco was definitely loyal to the original Rizzutos but I guess he became disgruntled. Although in the end, I guess his faction wasn’t strong enough to take on the other Rizzuto factions, although of course he and some of his guys are still around. If Vito was still alive, none of this would have happened, and the Rizzutos might have been on their way to recovery and still be a powerhouse. However, they still have quite a few guys and of course we can’t rule out the possibility of them bouncing back to an extent, sometime in the future.

          • IntheknowD

            I agree that the new generations of Italian Mob more likely to rat. I believe even those right from Italy are. Besides much stiffer sentences and technology making rackets harder, even immigrants don’t have the same needs that fed the Mafias growth. Mafia started in Italy due to an oppressive government and due to it people had such a huge distrust they would seek help elsewhere. With this no longer being the case the need that helped fuel their growth is gone. Those same issues are what currently has Albanian Organized Crime so strong. Very tight knit community from a region with oppressive government.

          • Tommy

            As of today? Periods of calm never last that long eh. Surprised it took them that long to target him, civilian or otherwise it’s basically been no holds barred in Montreal for quite a while.
            Edit- I’m unfamiliar with him and don’t know if he’s a civilian or not

          • Cedz

            joint rcmp and fbi investigation also targeting the gambinos and bonnanos. An undercover police agent was formally inducted into the Mafia in Canada

          • puffdaugherty

            What exactly is this Wolf Pack Alliance? I hear it mentioned on here often but don’t actually know what it is?

          • Tommy

            Basically a group of organized criminals who are members of other organizations but work together.

          • puffdaugherty

            And would these Wolf Pack guys be trying to exploit the absence of Rizzutos or loyal to whats left of them? Or just purely out for themselves whatever the case? Just curious as I dont know much about the players up there besides the usual stuff thats been heavily documented by the media and books.

          • Tommy

            They are apparently working with the rizzutos, but how ‘loyal’ they’d be, not sure. I doubt they care much to take up arms in their defence. But they do have a beef with the Commissos, that’s why Tasso was Killed in Toronto few. I that ago. That’s also what leads me to believe that the Commissos are partially behind the attack on the rizzutos. They have a long standing reputation for treachery and have the power to mount the attack. I think the wolf packs beef with the Commissos is likely what brings the wolf pack and the rizzutos together

          • puffdaugherty

            And the Commissos are that Ndragheta cell with the Siderno group back in Italy right? All the media hype claims that the Ndragheta is the most powerful Italian grouo in the world now. My question is are they all together or a bunch of cliques prone to infighting and what not. You see my point. Not to compare but the US News and government is always on about MS-13 which is a joke. Sure they’re totak savages but in no way are they all connected as a super gang. There may be some cliques connected but not in the way its hyped up. Total bullshit. They took down the main MS players here in SF and guess what? They’re just gone. No one took their place. No vacuum. Just gone.

          • Tommy

            Yea they are siderno group. They are prone to infighting, but all criminal organizations are. HA in Quebec wiped out an entire chapter of their so called ‘brothers’. Every one of the five families has been to war either internally or externally, or both. The ‘ndrangheta in Toronto has its own commission (camera di controllo) with the bosses of the most powerful clans setting policy and ironing out disputes etc etc just like the New York commission does/once did.

            So they do work together on occasion, but much like LCN they’re separate entities/ clans, they just operate under the same banner.. ‘ndrangheta/ honoured society. It’s a different animal in Canada these days though, with Rocco zito, mike racco, cosimo stalteri etc and all the originals dying off. And with this nesci group out of Hamilton really asserting itself on the streets lately, things are changing.

            Ps massive Coke bust in Toronto today. Came through Montreal. 1000 keys. Hispanic guys though, was surprised to hear no Italian names in the indictment.

          • puffdaugherty

            Im curious who was meant to be purchasing all that coke though? Would it be Italians doing business with a Mexican Cartel. Its not unheard of. Or was it just Latin guys on both ends? I’ll have to check the articles out myself. You’d think its easier to smuggle all that dope to Canada from Mexico then from Europe so im sure they do a certain amount of business with Cartels just out of convenience…

          • JohnGrant213

            I think with the war dragging on as long as it has that theory is def one of debate but if it is the Ndrangheta behind the attacks and they do eventually take over then its hard to imagine the HA’s even in the improving state that they are now having more power than the Calabrian’s who now have worldwide influence which surely eclipses that of the biker gang. I think the gap has surely closed some but overall I would imagine the Angels still have work to do to get on that level.

          • Cedz

            yes but you have to understand there is no godfather in montreal. the mob is a splintered group fighting Amongst each other for the last ten years. the bikers are a United with more members then ever with 7 puppets gangs . in the. media it has been reported that some clans are paying taxes the bikers

          • Cedz

            I dont believe in my opinion any individual clan is stronger then the ha as a whole. the mob United yes but splintered no

          • Tommy

            The HA business model and organizational structure just lends itself to success in present times more so than the mafia’s.

          • Franco

            In terms of drug money, but how about for Infiltrating legal Infrastructure and the money to be made there? They aren’t so good in that. Anybody can be drug dealers, but only the most organized criminals can reach the next level of crime. Sure drug dealers can be filthy rich, but they typically last half as long as the already usually short living, more organized Paul Castellano/ Vito Rizzuto types. Guys that are heavily involved in selling drugs usually end up dead or in jail pretty quick.

          • Tommy

            The angels are more fluid. Their ethnic limitations for membership are less rigid, they use the sense of ‘brotherhood’ to enforce their own style of omertà, and they’ve moved into much more tech savvy operations than just distributing drugs. The angels in Canada aren’t what they were 10-2 years ago. They’re elite.

          • Tommy

            No, I agree. I was saying that post biker wars they were nearly extinct. They’ve come back not only in Quebec but are trying to rebuild in the maritimes now as well.

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